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  #31  
Old 19-Mar-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadderz View Post
Yeah but kicking him in the legs was probably better than punching him, knocking him unconscious and killing him by accident.
Can't argue with that.

I did once kick someone and didn't do a great job.

I ended up with a punch in the face by the other guy who was wearing a big gold ring.

If I was going to kick someone now it would have to be a fight ending kick just like your brother did.
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  #32  
Old 19-Mar-2017, 03:51 PM
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I know, now comes the big head shaking and some will think I shouldn't be in the conversion, since - and now the important thing: I never wwas in real fight so far.
Oh, and yes, I'm glad, I didn't and I admit that.
I also admit: I'm not a fan of the "On the street I would do this and that"-talk; most people I hear talking like that... let's just say, even I doubt they would do anything of use.

What I think though: If I were to come into a situation, where I really have to defend myself*, I do hope that this: That I wouldn't hamper myself, by thinking about consequences, but that I would "hit right".
(All given that I really would be able to do something. )
Pretty much as Simon said here:
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If it really comes down to having to defend yourself you can't be half hitting someone, or striking where it can't cause a visible injury.
*and I mean "Really" have to do so. I don't mean the drunk cousin on a party or the dude begging for money.
In that case I would hope, to be able to act controlled enough.

Don't get me wrong: The whole carried by six isn't ideal thinking for me at all!
But if I were to keep thinking: "God, if you hit him now, he could fall, and ..." when someone is trying to beat my head in, I (for others it might be different) could just as well lie down and wait until it's over.



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Originally Posted by kandi View Post
Why cause the most pain possible? [...] Best going for the solar plexus (wind them), groin (pain) or eyes
Seriously: Am I the only one who thinks actually hitting the groin is difficult.

Again, I can't talk from personal experience, but even during practice we stand sideways all the time, so the groin is a bit protected already by doing nothing.
In real fights people can't be so dumb, to stand with the legs apart.

Sure, you can try and make them move into a position where this might work, but that goes for everything else as well.

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As for no bruises... you'd want to avoid fleshy places with lots of blood supply. That leaves joints, but that causes serious injury at times. There isn't an easy answer here.
I have bruises on my elbow joints all the time.
Due to Ukemi funny enough: I fall great and everything, but the thick seam of my Uwagi at times lies right where I fall

At the wrists I bruise easily as well; just now both my wrists are black and blue
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  #33  
Old 19-Mar-2017, 04:14 PM
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I've been in one altercation since I started training and nobody was harmed. I'm that good at self defence.
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  #34  
Old 19-Mar-2017, 04:29 PM
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I've been in one altercation since I started training and nobody was harmed. I'm that good at self defence.
Did you cry?
Or pee on yourself?
And made the other go that way?

My teacher tell me, crying won't count, so I never got to test it.

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  #35  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 03:25 PM
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Seriously: Am I the only one who thinks actually hitting the groin is difficult.

Again, I can't talk from personal experience, but even during practice we stand sideways all the time, so the groin is a bit protected already by doing nothing.
In real fights people can't be so dumb, to stand with the legs apart.
It all depends, doesn't it? If the target is available, go for it, if it isn't, go for one that is.

The "standing sideways" thing though; most aggressors I've seen don't think about defending themselves. They are dominating the other person and don't usually spend time to think "what if my sucker punch/headbutt doesn't drop them?", they go in presuming that they will batter the other guy. It's not like sparring where there is give-and-take.
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  #36  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Simon View Post
If I was going to kick someone now it would have to be a fight ending kick just like your brother did.
This is where personal specialisation comes in, isn't it?

If person A consistently drops people in sparring with leg kicks, then leg kicks are a viable technique for them. If person B struggles to get a consistent reaction from leg kicks, then they will be a low percentage technique for them.
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  #37  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 08:37 PM
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It all depends, doesn't it? If the target is available, go for it, if it isn't, go for one that is.
That goes without saying.

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Originally Posted by David Harrison View Post
The "standing sideways" thing though; most aggressors I've seen don't think about defending themselves. They are dominating the other person and don't usually spend time to think "what if my sucker punch/headbutt doesn't drop them?", they go in presuming that they will batter the other guy. It's not like sparring where there is give-and-take.
My teacher stood in front of the class once, normally.
And asked one student to come and try to kick him between the legs - he didn't need much moving to partially protect himself anyway.

Of course it was to show something, so the student didn't kick full force or anything.

I think I still don't believe it to be as easy as some people make it out to be.
But again - I wasn't in a real fight so far.
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  #38  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Latikos View Post
My teacher stood in front of the class once, normally.
And asked one student to come and try to kick him between the legs - he didn't need much moving to partially protect himself anyway.
It's easy to defend most things when you know what your opponent will do before hand.

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I think I still don't believe it to be as easy as some people make it out to be.
But again - I wasn't in a real fight so far.
How easy anything is depends on your opponent. Groin shots certainly aren't the guarantee fight-enders that some people sell them as, but they are good techniques to keep in your toolbox, as much for defending against them as delivering them.
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  #39  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 08:50 PM
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Groin shots certainly aren't the guarantee fight-enders that some people sell them as, but they are good techniques to keep in your toolbox, as much for defending against them as delivering them.
That's for sure.
If there is is an opportunity it would be rather daft not to at least try it.
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  #40  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 10:05 PM
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Groin shots certainly aren't the guarantee fight-enders that some people sell them as, but they are good techniques to keep in your toolbox, as much for defending against them as delivering them.
In 20 years of putting hands on people in and out of training I've been hit in the groin probably 25 times. Only one connected solidly enough to put me out of action immediately (sparring thankfully) and one more which I didn't feel until afterward. As Lakitos said it's crazy not to try, but no one should think that any single shot to any target will necessarily put an opponent down.
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  #41  
Old 20-Mar-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SWC Sifu Ben View Post
In 20 years of putting hands on people in and out of training I've been hit in the groin probably 25 times. Only one connected solidly enough to put me out of action immediately (sparring thankfully) and one more which I didn't feel until afterward. As Lakitos said it's crazy not to try, but no one should think that any single shot to any target will necessarily put an opponent down.
My experience has been very similar, except I'm still waiting for the groin shot that puts me down (I have put someone out of action temporarily myself in training though, countering a roundhouse with a shin straight between the legs).

I've said it many times on MAP, but I think groin shots are best served cold - that is, before the adrenaline is pumping and fight-or-flight is on.
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  #42  
Old 21-Mar-2017, 11:28 AM
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sad incident of one punch death in a suburban pub near me last year. youth spat an another youths girlfriend, boyfriend punched youth, youth hit head on floor, youth died. boyfriend convicted of manslaughter.
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  #43  
Old 21-Mar-2017, 11:34 AM
Tom bayley Tom bayley is offline
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Worth noting a good leg kick can still knock an opponent to the ground risking a head injury.

Bottom line, a fight is a fight, we must do all one can to avoid, control, and escape a fight. But if compelled to use force in self defense, There is no time to second guess consequences. One can only do what seems appropriate at the time.
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  #44  
Old 21-Mar-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom bayley View Post
Worth noting a good leg kick can still knock an opponent to the ground risking a head injury.

Bottom line, a fight is a fight, we must do all one can to avoid, control, and escape a fight. But if compelled to use force in self defense, There is no time to second guess consequences. One can only do what seems appropriate at the time.
Yeah that happened to the guy my little brother kicked. I think the difference is you aren't "out" on the way down. Your body will defend your head if you fall.
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  #45  
Old 21-Mar-2017, 02:03 PM
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I think the difference is you aren't "out" on the way down. Your body will defend your head if you fall.
Yeah, that is the big difference.

Reflexes are really fast, unless you're absolutely blind drunk, and you can see even if someone doesn't get their hands up to break their fall they will twist their body so that their head isn't the first thing to contact the ground. Falling to the ground when unconscious is a hundred times more dangerous.
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