Is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu basically a DEGRADED version of (Japanese) Jiu Jitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by KhanArtisT, Jan 2, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    I have a serious issue with "Brazilian" Jiu Jitsu being called such. I basically think all BJJ is, is a bunch of Brazilians and others making money out of promoting a phony "self-defense" system by DEGRADING Japanese Jiu Jitsu/Judo which IS actually a complete system. I believe Brazilians learned it from some Japanese guy and used it to make money around the world. They go around FALSELY promoting a PHONY self defense system by having modified the original art by way of the following:

    1.) Removing striking. It is self-explanatory why this is dumb.

    3.) Removing stand-up. This degrades the system because EVERY single fight stands on the feet. It's also dumb because it limits the art to SINGLE attackers, which is VERY rare in street fights. Every punk at a bar/club or school has his "boys" join in when they're threatened.

    3.) Removing emphasis on melee weapons combat. This degrades the system because melee weapons, or defense against them is almost ALWAYS involved in street fights.

    My problem is that almost all local schools teach ONLY Brazilian JJ which I believe is junk. It actually think it makes people more vulnerable because they're eager to get in fights when they don't actually know how to fight. All while some McDojo stacks its money thru membership fees, fake ass belts and overpriced GI's.

    If I could sum up the whole post with one question I would say the following:
    In what way is BJJ superior to JJJ?

    Some background about OP:

    • I have trained Muay Thai for three years and counting.
    • I am not Japanese or any other kind of Asian.
    • I am ONLY interested in martial arts for the purpose of self-defense. I don't need to fight to make a living. I need to fight when some punk slaps my girl's ass or gets mad when I bump into him at the bar.
    • I appreciate the concept of practicing all USEFUL martial arts.


    Sources:
    https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-Brazilian-and-Japanese-jiu-jitsu
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/462509-traditional-jujitsu-vs-brazilian-jiu-jitsu/
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ive trained in Actual Japanese jujutsu, western jujitsu, Judo and BJJ.

    And with BJJ and judo you get much more in depth specialization then generic juijitsu, and due to randori/rolling you gain actual skills.

    Most western jujitsu is technically terrible and doesn't spar so doesnt do what its intended.

    If you train BJJ at most places youll also have exposure to muay thai and wrestling, so the unarmed triad of striking, clinch, and ground will be covered.

    weapons defense and multiple attackers are always low percentage.

    Judo evolved (and still is) from Jujutsu, BJJ and sambo evolved from Judo.

    Quick question, have you ever sparred a BJJ player?
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Which Japanses Jujutsu?
    The majority of jiujitsu taught in the west hasnt got much to do with actual Japanese jujutsu.
    And Koryu Jujutsu doesnt claim to teach the things you think it does.

    If were talking generally, then
    a) experience of sparring (standing and ground)
    b) Groundwork, I.e the ability to sweep to a dominate position
    The ability to submit or strike from dominate and neutral positions
    The ability to standup from dominate/neutral and inferior positions.
    c) A realistic view of its practioners abilities.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award


    Welcome to MAP.

    These are the times when you need to learn how to avoid a fight.

    Good self defence doesn't require you to train in one art over another.

    You could train in JJJ or BJJ, but if you feel the fight is definitely on because some dude slapped your girlfriend's butt then a re-evaluation is required.
     
  5. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    Yes. The total amount of BJJ classes I have attended at my school is less than 10. I was not convinced, especially given the training of Gui-based chokes which are 100% useless.

    Western schools actually emphasize training heavily. Rolling is done in the last 30 minutes of every class, though not all students stay for it.

    If you train BJJ at most schools you don't get actual exposure to MT and Wrestling unless you CHOOSE to. I go to a very well known school with multiple branches, and the BJJ class is literally more than 8 times the size of the wrestling, muay thai, or boxing class. Not surprising since it's basically the most MARKETED martial art in the US.

    Most of the time I go to the bar or a club, I see or am involved in fights in some way. Almost every one involves multiple attackers, so in my context I would weigh the utility of defense against multiple attackers very high.
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So you attend a BJJ school, whos class size pays for the other MMA classes, train with MMA fighters who could beat you (and who also train at least BJJ/ nogi) but think BJJ is useless because it doesnt fit into multiple attackers / bar fights.

    Does that also mean you think wrestling is useless too?

    Do you even train in the MMA classes?
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    As I said previously, time for a re-evaluation.

    The question you should be asking is why you are involved in fights each time you go out.
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That my friend means you make very poor life choices.
     
  9. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    1.) I do not attend a BJJ school, I attend an MMA school.

    2.) I train with MMA fighters, BJJ fighters, and MT fighters. Some of whom can beat me and others who currently cannot.

    3.) I hold wrestling in a higher regard than jiujisu. I think both BJJ and wrestling are useful.

    4.) Uh, yes. I train in the MMA classes. The heck is this, a personal interview? If you want a life story, search me on facebook. Otherwise engage in discussion or not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2017
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    KhanArtist, we have rules regarding bad language.

    Please review the ToS to which you agreed when you joined MAP.
     
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    KhanArtisT, please check the rules for posting on MAP. We don't allow swearing, masked, abbreviated or otherwise. Thank you for your cooperation with this policy.
     
  12. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    The stuff about life choices is idiotic. I'm an engineer with no criminal record. I have a girlfriend, friends and a fulfilling life.

    If you're going somewhere and someone slaps your wife's butt and you do nothing, you deserve to be castrated. What are you gonna do, file a police report? Please.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  13. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    Have any one of you actually been to a bar?

    Put intoxicated young people in close proximity. Add girls. Guess what, people get into fights. It's a fact of life. It is NOT a poor life choice to go to bars and stuff. I have things to celebrate.

    MAP is slowly proving to be not a martial arts discussion medium but a ****ing contest.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You chose to join us.

    You have joined a forum of 70000 members, some world class martial artists, students, lawyers, police men and women, self defence experts, and so on.

    There is a lot of knowledge here for those that seek to learn.
     
  15. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    Are you seriously telling me that this MARTIAL ARTS forum doesn't have MUAY THAI as a choice in the "Martial arts practiced" section!?:confused:

    Muay thai is NOT kickboxing. I chose to join you because you have a misleading name. Please promptly add the world's deadliest marital art to the list to establish credibility.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  16. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Perhaps if you scrolled down the forum list a bit more you would have spotted the 'Thai Boxing' subforum.
     
  17. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    Ahh you got me there. 100% my fault. I'm more used to reading "Muay Thai" than Thai Boxing
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I see Muay Thai as an option quite clearly.
     
  19. KhanArtisT

    KhanArtisT Banned Banned

    If I remove the multiple failed personal attacks and amateur-level sarcasm in this post, I do see a completely valid point.

    You're saying that, because SOME MMA students can put me to sleep or break one of my limbs in an MMA fight, that BJJ is not useless. Correct? If so:

    1.) I never claimed that BJJ is useless. I claimed that I CURRENTLY BELIEVE (every current belief is a working probability) that JAPANESE JiuJitsu is SUPERIOR to "Brazilian" JiuJitsu. See title thread.

    2.) Training on the mat at school does not simulate a street fight. Street fighting is what INVENTED martial arts, the reason for this forum's existence. Things like bare elbows to the head, kicks to the spine, etc. are NOT allowed in the controlled school environment and therefore it does NOT serve as a simulator.

    This is to say, in a street fight, the BJJ practitioner with amateur striking may get schooled in an actual, real-life fight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  20. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Do I smell a troll?

    LFD
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page