Lau Gar terms

Discussion in 'Kung Fu Resources' started by CFT, Aug 1, 2006.

  1. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Hey Lau Gar people ... do any of you have the Chinese characters for your forms/movements/drills, etc ?

    I've been trying to work out what some of your stuff is in Chinese. These are the terms I'm interested in. Some I can work out, some I can't. I've also included Cantonese romanisation that is a bit more mainstream.

    Kay boon sau fa --> Gei Boon Sau Faat --> 基本手法
    Jorn Sau --> X 手
    Charp Choi --> Chaap Choi --> 插捶
    Gee yau bok gaik --> Gee Yau Bok Gik --> 自由搏擊
    Lin wan tak fa --> Lin Wan Tek Faat --> 連環踢法
    Far Kuin --> Faa Kuen --> 花拳
    Fai Loong Gee --> Fei Lung Zi --> 飛龍指
    Sup Sarn Sau --> Sup Saam Sau --> 十三手
    Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuin --> Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuen --> 劉家六合拳
    Bac Pye Jurn --> X X Zoeng --> X X 掌
    Chiun Sum Toi --> Chyun Sum Tui --> 穿心腿
    Lau Gar Darn Dough --> Lau Gar Daan Do --> 劉家單刀
    Lau Gar Soar Hou Kwun --> Lau Gar Sor Hau Gwun --> 劉家鎖喉棍
    Kwun Jorn Doi Chark - Gwun X Doi Chaak --> 棍 X 對策
     
  2. Mr. O

    Mr. O Valued Member

    hi, sorry I dont have any of the characters, I may be able to get them but as and when I couldnt say, this is very good though as it might shed some more light on to the whole area.

    Can you translate the chinese characters back into english? As I understand they will have different meanings to the english they provide us?

    For eg, Kay Boon Sau Fa (Basic Hand Movement) COnverted from chinese its Basic Tactics!
     
  3. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    At Ormskirklaugar's request, added translations at the end. They're a mix of literal and descriptive translations.

    • Kay boon sau fa --> Gei Boon Sau Faat --> 基本手法 --> Basic Hand methods
    • Jorn Sau --> X 手
    • Charp Choi --> Chaap Choi --> 插捶 --> Thrusting punch (actually not sure if I have the right char. for chaap. There is a char. for spade that sounds the same. Clarification please)
    • Gee yau bok gaik --> Gee Yau Bok Gik --> 自由搏擊 --> Free sparring/fighting.
    • Lin wan tak fa --> Lin Wan Tek Faat --> 連環踢法 --> Continuous kicking methods
    • Far Kuin --> Faa Kuen --> 花拳 --> Flower fist
    • Fai Loong Gee --> Fei Lung Zi --> 飛龍指 --> Flying Dragon fingers
    • Sup Sarn Sau --> Sup Saam Sau --> 十三手 --> Thirteen Hands
    • Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuin --> Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuen --> 劉家六合拳 --> Lau Gar Six Union Fist (traditionally the 6 Unions are the linking of the 6 points: heel, knee, pelvis/waist, shoulder, elbow and wrist)
    • Bac Pye Jurn --> X X Zoeng --> X X 掌
    • Chiun Sum Toi --> Chyun Sum Tui --> 穿心腿 --> Heart Penetrating Kick
    • Lau Gar Darn Dough --> Lau Gar Daan Do --> 劉家單刀 --> Lau Gar single sabre
    • Lau Gar Soar Hou Kwun --> Lau Gar Sor Hau Gwun --> 劉家鎖喉棍 --> Lau Gar throat locking staff
    • Kwun Jorn Doi Chark - Gwun X Doi Chaak --> 棍 X 對策

    What is the "Jorn" in "Jorn Sau"?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  4. Mr. O

    Mr. O Valued Member

    charp choi is translated as "drilling punches" so thrusting punch seems more adequate.

    sup sarn sou is "all hand and kick blocks"

    Bac Pye Jurn "Palm of the Bac Pye Mountain"
     
  5. Mr. O

    Mr. O Valued Member

    p.s

    As I originally understand Jorn Sau was "Jong Sau" I have been told it had something to do with having Wooden legs, to be planted like a tree?!?
     
  6. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    "Sup" is usually "ten", is this how many there are? "Sarn sau" could be "saan sau" which literally translates as "separate hands". In practice these are "short forms" or drills that could consist of one or a few movements. Think of taking one of your long/normal forms and breaking out sections to teach a particular concept.

    Yeah I know they are palms, but I just don't know what characters they are or even what they are trying to describe.

    The "jong" is usually the wooden dummy. But there is also the jong from "bai jong", i.e. the "ready position".
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2006
  7. Mr. O

    Mr. O Valued Member

    unless one one the other Lau peeps on here can shed some light on it, I will ask at the next course which is on 3rd september, about the characters!!

    @ the sup thing, yes there are 10 hand and kick blocks. they were all devised from the forms! so possibly 10 separate hands?

    @Jong sau, the form is just another set of basic hand movements coupled with breathing.

    again, I will ask for the translations etc when I am next at the Brum gym!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2006
  8. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Cheers. I want to get the Chinese characters so I can see if there are any Chinese language webpages describing the "Bac Pye" mountains, "Kuei Ling" temple, etc.

    I've seen Chinese language news reports of the previous visits by UK Lau Gar clubs to Foshan in China.
     
  9. Mr. O

    Mr. O Valued Member

    from the chinese news reports, have there been any reference to lineage etc on them? I think the Kuei Ling is "Gui Lin". I have heard a story about a Lau Gar man from guangxi, apprently from Guil Lin who came here once. I can mail it to you if you like, its not much help with the characters, but its a little bit of useless info!
     
  10. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Hmmm ... I don't think it is Guilin. Yau sifu seems to use a personal form of Cantonese romanziation throughout his website. Guilin is Mandarin Chinese; in Cantonese it would be "Gway Lum".

    Send me your info, see what there is. Can send email to me via my profile.
     
  11. lauguardian

    lauguardian Valued Member

    The "jong" is usually the wooden dummy. But there is also the jong from "bai jong", i.e. the "ready position".[/QUOTE]

    "Jong" in jong sau does mean post, piler or dummy
     
  12. FuJau

    FuJau Banned Banned

    cool post
    I have been trying to find these characters to the point of asking some chinise friends of mine in hong kong. So I can design a poster for my club, oh the joy of cut and paste (apple C apple V) :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  13. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Updated list:
    • Kay boon sau fa --> Gei Boon Sau Faat --> 基本手法 --> Basic Hand methods
    • Jorn Sau --> Jong Sau --> 樁手 --> Post hands
    • Charp Choi --> Chaap Choi --> 插捶 --> Thrusting punch
    • Gee yau bok gaik --> Gee Yau Bok Gik --> 自由搏擊 --> Free sparring/fighting.
    • Lin wan tak fa --> Lin Wan Tek Faat --> 連環踢法 --> Continuous kicking methods
    • Far Kuin --> Faa Kuen --> 花拳 --> Flower fist
    • Fai Loong Gee --> Fei Lung Zi --> 飛龍指 --> Flying Dragon fingers
    • Sup Sarn Sau --> Sup Saan Sau --> 十散手 --> Ten Separate Hands (actually 10 discrete hand/leg drills/exercises)
    • Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuin --> Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuen --> 劉家六合拳 --> Lau Gar Six Union Fist (traditionally the 6 Unions are the linking of the 6 points: heel, knee, pelvis/waist, shoulder, elbow and wrist)
    • Bac Pye Jurn --> X X Zoeng --> X X 掌 --> "Bac Pye" palms
    • Chiun Sum Toi --> Chyun Sum Tui --> 穿心腿 --> Heart Penetrating Kick
    • Lau Gar Darn Dough --> Lau Gar Daan Do --> 劉家單刀 --> Lau Gar single sabre
    • Lau Gar Soar Hou Kwun --> Lau Gar Sor Hau Gwun --> 劉家鎖喉棍 --> Lau Gar throat locking staff
    • Kwun Jorn Doi Chark - Gwun X Doi Chaak --> 棍 X 對策

    Is the "Jorn" in "Kwun Jorn" the same as in "Jorn Sau"? Is this a "staff against dummy" type exercise?

    I can add more terms if anyone else is interested.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  14. FuJau

    FuJau Banned Banned

    yeah I am add the lot many thanks
     
  15. 2scoops

    2scoops New Member

    Now I'm confused. I always thought the 'Jorn' in jorn sau was 'centre' - centre hand

    中手 - jung sau - centre hand.

    Have I always been completely wrong, or is this another of those things that can be interpreted in different ways?

    This is dead handy, by the way - http://www.yourdictionary.com/languages/sinotibe.html
     
  16. lauguardian

    lauguardian Valued Member

    Jorn in jorn sau means post

    Lau Gar Luk Hap Kuin means Lau Gar's 6 cordinations or harmonies ( which are 3 internal and 3 external)

    the Jorn in Kwun Jorn doi chark means to bolck
     
  17. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Got the first one.

    On the second ... so what 6 points are hamonized?

    On the third ... there are quite a characters for block, but I think it is this one: . In Cantonese it sounds the same as "left" (jor).
     
  18. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    Updates to list after input form lauguardian.

    • Kay boon sau fa --> Gei Boon Sau Faat --> 基本手法 --> Basic Hand methods
    • Jorn Sau --> Jong Sau --> 樁手 --> Post hands
    • Charp Choi --> Chaap Choi --> 插捶 --> Thrusting punch
    • Gee yau bok gaik --> Gee Yau Bok Gik --> 自由搏擊 --> Free sparring/fighting.
    • Lin wan tak fa --> Lin Wan Tek Faat --> 連環踢法 --> Continuous kicking methods
    • Far Kuin --> Faa Kuen --> 花拳 --> Flower fist
    • Fai Loong Gee --> Fei Lung Zi --> 飛龍指 --> Flying Dragon fingers
    • Sup Sarn Sau --> Sup Saan Sau --> 十散手 --> Ten Separate Hands (actually 10 discrete hand/leg drills/exercises)
    • Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuin --> Lau Gar Luk Hup Kuen --> 劉家六合拳 --> Lau Gar Six Harmonies Fist (traditionally the 6 Harmonies are the coordinated linking of the 6 points: heel, knee, hip/waist, shoulder, elbow and wrist. Lau Gar harmoises 3 internal and 3 external asects)
    • Bac Pye Jurn --> Baat Paai Zoeng --> 八排掌 --> Palms of the Baat Paai (8 Rows/Lines) Mountain 八排山)
    • Chiun Sum Toi --> Chyun Sum Tui --> 穿心腿 --> Heart Penetrating Kick
    • Lau Gar Darn Dough --> Lau Gar Daan Do --> 劉家單刀 --> Lau Gar single sabre
    • Lau Gar Soar Hou Kwun --> Lau Gar Sor Hau Gwun --> 劉家鎖喉棍 --> Lau Gar throat locking staff
    • Kwun Jorn Doi Chark - Gwun Jor Doi Chaak --> 棍阻對策

    I found "Bac Pye"/"Baat Paai" by searching for Gwongsai Lau Gar Kuen in Chinese. Some interesting intertwining of Southern Chinese martial arts stories. Will post after some cursory reading of the search results ....
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006
  19. 2scoops

    2scoops New Member

    I've been told that 'bac pye' jurn is named after the a mountain called 'baat pye' or 'eight screen' mountain. The gentleman that said this was told this by Master Yau. allegedly.
     
  20. CFT

    CFT Valued Member

    OK, these are just pages from the Internet so the historical accuracy is debateable. Just consider them as interesting stories if nothing else.

    Searching for "Baat Paai" mountain gave results for other Southern CMA, namely "Hung Fut" and "Choy Lee Fut".

    Hung Fut
    Lee Jo Foon (李祖寬) a student of Hung Hei Gwoon (Hung Gar) on the run from the Qing (Manchurian) government seeks refuge in Ching Wah Temple (青華寺) on Baat Paai Mountain. There he refines his Hung Gar which is then known as Hung Fut.

    Choy Lee Fut
    Cheung Yim (張炎) is sent to the Green Grass Monk (青草和尚) at Zaap Gin Temple (閘建寺) on Baat Paai Mountain by Chan Heung (陳享) one of the founders of Choy Lee Fut. After decades of studying the martial arts and medicine, Green Grass Monk "commands" Cheung Yim to transmit his knowledge to Chan Heung. Together they pool their knowledge to create Choy Lee Fut. Chan stays in Chan village to open the Hung Sing school (雄勝武館) and Cheung travels to Foshan (佛山) to open the Hung Sing school (鴻勝武館).

    I think this version of events is disputed by Chan family Choy Lee Fut which claims Chan Heung is the sole originator of the system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2006

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