Kaatsu

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Late for dinner, May 25, 2014.

  1. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    So I was just at a big conference on Knee surgery last week and I bumped into a guy singing the praises of Kaatsu... been at least 7 + years since it was discussed on here so I thought I would bring it up again to see what people thought.

    (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48744&highlight=kaatsu)

    Kaatsu is a weird Japanese method where people use a tourniquet to occlude blood flow when lifting. Some people just use leg wraps and wrap their arms or legs to get the same effect as the tourniquets. Some say it gives a great swole while there appears to be some possiblity that there are strength gains at the same time. Problem that I have is that they are using only about 20% rm and multiple sets of 10-15 reps. There are theopries that this causes huge increases in growth hormone release. I still haven't seen anything that convinces me yet.

    So anyone tried this? Seen it? Have any thoughts?

    LFD
     
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i've heard of it as occlusion training, and many bodybuilders swear by it. like verything, i'm pretty sure that there are studies supporting it, and brad schoenfeld has iirc published findings to the effect of increased pressure inside a muscle resulting in greater myofibrillar hypertrophy, which he mentioned regarding both "the pump" and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but which would probably apply to this as wepl
     
  3. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    I also read about it recently in Jamie Lewis' blog.
    He cited a study with rugby players that trained with a thigh occlusion cuff using 70% of their 1RM for 5x5 on bench, squat, and pullups.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23628627

    I didn't know that this method was around for years and it had a cool Japanese name.. :p
     
  4. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I have seen a few articles but I can't seem to fond anything that gives proper methodology and stats rather than 'doesn't' this look good type opinions.

    As I mentioned before most studies use 20% RM , 10-15 reps, 3+ sets. The study you mentioned has potential but they have only a small sample and no stats. What is also interesting is that they suggest systemic improvements ( e.g. arm growth while using a thigh cuff).

    LFD
     
  5. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    recent

    http://journals.humankinetics.com/i...thletes-with-3nbspweeks-of-occlusion-training.

    Abstract sounds great BUT

    -it's not clear if the gains seen are statistically or more importantly clinically significant
    -the authors extrapolate that the gains from the 70%/5x5 programme could be achieved in a clinical population using only 20%/3 x 15 although they are testing young healthy adults performing a power lifting type routine
    -they're raising hopes that a local method will produce systemic gains without firm support for this position
    -there are tons of confounding factors such as no controls, no blinding etc
    -it would cost me £21 to get a chance to see this paper since I don't have access to an appropriate library at the moment...

    It will certainly get people's interest up but realistically, if something had been producing these fantastic changes then EVERY high level lifter would be using this method. Don't think I've met/heard anyone suggest it other than online and at last week's conference.

    What will be interesting will be to see what the injury rate from inappropriate occlusion since most people won't be interested or able to afford the proper Kaatsu kit.

    LFD
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  6. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    dunno about injury, but as i unxerstand it, ir's (unsurprisingly) unconfortable as hell to do, which might also play a factor in it's non-adoption. widowmaker squats also work, but how many people do them?
     
  7. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    If you use too high a pressure then you are creating ischaemia to the point where it can cause tissue dammage. The idea is to have the cuff on high enough to stop venous flow but not arterial flow. There have been some predictions that this might happen in people going a bit over the top.

    LFD
     
  8. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    As to the ''widow maker'' squats this sounds like bro science....

    I don't think that many of the big guns use anything like this .. if it worked that well you can bet there would be some maniacs out there doing it..

    Just sayin'

    LFD
     
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    actually widowmakers were quite popular WAAAAAAY back when, when they were known as 20-rep breathing squats. also, there ARE some maniacs out there doing them :p (julia zaugolova has a video of her 20-repping 100kg, dan john has written at length about taking your own bodyweight on the front squat and repping it until you nearly die, and similar things, and matt kroc has a video where he does this absolutely ridiculous 40-rep drop set where he 8-reps 500, 405, 315, 225 and 135 pounds.

    also, tom platz :p

    also not that different from doing something like sheiko, which many more people use these days, and which pretty much everyone simultaneously loves and hates.
     
  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    LFD- evidently the reason many people don't undertake the real 20 rep squat routine is because it's one of the worst major mental ordeals in weight training.

    As Fish pointed out, the routine isn't new.

    Recommended reading is Strossens' "Super Squats". It's very good,and also outlines "easier" methods derived/akin to it.

    Tom Platz? Who? Oh,right. Quadzilla.
     

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