Are any familar with the abovementioned systems, and their kata? I am especially interested to know of any simularities between them? Are the "traditional kata" that drasticlly different from the more modern forms of kenpo? Alright I've tossed something out there. C'mon c'mon, think it through, talk amongst yourselves. Discuss, discuss... Salute in Christ, Donald
Kenpo forms differences Donald, We need to start slowly and in simple terms because we're talking about an art that originated in China and was found to be cultivated in Okinawa as well as used by the Samurai as a means of killing with the bare hands and light weapons, was dropped from the Japanese when the Samurai class was declassified. When the samurai were no longer able to carry the sword they were also told that they could practice ju-jitsu and other Japanese systems only, and kenpo was ousted from Japan. The more prominent forms of Kenpo are Kyosho Ryu Kempo in Japan now in our modern era, Kara ho Kempo out of Hawaii, Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate, Okinawan Kenpo Karate. I will make this my second article the history of Kenpo Karate. But you'll have to give me some time. The forms out of Parkers System are different than those from Hawaii and China and Japan. The art that was developed by Parker came from shuri ryu (old pine tree style)and from James Mitose who's real name was Yoshida, his grandfather was a 20th grandmaster of the samurai class who continued to teach him even after the declassification. There are other forms of Kenpo or fist law techniques. Take for instance traditional Kenpo once the basics have been acheived there is a lot of staff, nunchaku, tonfa and other "traditional weapons training. Anyway get back to me with some of your observations in this matter - real good topic Tom Vince
been awhile since I went over my history to the "t" but Yoshida was the 20th Grand Master of the Samurai class until the Japanese decided to take away that class of citizen. The Samurai were no longer allowed to carry the sword on their side and all arts that were not Japanese in origin were kicked out. Kenpo or Kempo depending on where it's influence originated and continued was now only practiced in China and Okinawa and some other asian countires. Shaolin Kempo is still practiced in China today and it is practiced again in Japan as Shorinji-Ryu Kempo. The Okinawans were also practicing Kenpo. Shaolin Kempo gave birth to many arts including Shaolin Temple Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, Kung Fu,Kempo/Kenpo, Chin Na, and other Karate Styles. I think I would like to da an article on the history as I can best put it together. The reason Mitose did not use the real name of Yoshida was because there was concern about the Japanese goverment holding family members responsible in Japan for the teachings going on in Hawaii. Mitose was part of the family name and a clan that had learned Kempo from China. The other half of the family was still living in Japan and was known as the Yoshida Clan.
Donald sorry it took so long I can tell you now about American Kenpo. The traditional Kata's were "borrowed" from the original Kata's of Kyosho Ryu nad Shuri Ryu Kenpo or the "old pine tree" style. The first Kata's Short form #1 and Long Form#1, Short 2, Long 2 are all considered in the basic idea of movement. Short Form #1: Moving away from the attacker and using the basic "hard" blocks of the MA's. It teaches more of a foot movement and proper block placement then a real confrontation. It helps build a basic coordination in the student. Long Form #1: Includes short form #1 in it;s footwork but now adds the dynamic of a thrust punch and "setting" of the stance to increase power of the punch. It also concentrates on the fluidity of movement in the "mechanical stage" and although I am going to use a statement that will need further investigation on your part, short form 1 and long form 1 work on the "plus sign" of the universal pattern. I'll explain later, but you may already be familiar with this phenomenon. Short 2 and Long 2 work on the "multiplication" sign or the "X" of the universal pattern. It concentrates on the "returning action" of a motion and add's stance changes to the idea of defense. The forms short 3 to Long 8 all deal with self defense techniques "within" the form and are ececuted on both he right and left sides of the body. In this way the are in a kinship the old traditional styles of "the old pine tree" style in that the movements are hidden within the Kata's. When Kata is practiced as in all MA's the movement's that can surge forth from Kata practice and realization create a thousand more techniques. Now I am interested in your input sir! A journey of a thousand miles begins in just one step but it is never completed without walking one step after another! Sincerely yours, Thomas
You know your stuff, fair play! I came to Parkers Kenpo from the traditional Wado Ryu Karate, via a few distractions here and there. Now I'm no history student but do enjoy reading other peoples study (lazy I know) However in terms of practice I find myself leaning towards the traditional as opposed to the modern Kata/forms. In Parker's Kenpo, I really only practice long 1,2 and 3. the others I find a bit lacking. However I practice all the Wado kata, some that I picked up from Masters/Villarri's Kempo. In these more traditional forms I find I'm costantly discovering new ideas and applications dependant upon whatever my focus is at the time of practice (grabs, strikes, footwork, speed, power etc) than I do in the Later parkers forms that are technique based. I am not alone in this view amongst the people I train with, how about the rest of you? Interested in you input.
Mitose was not a decendant of Yoshida. I don't have all my ducks in a row here, I will post more in a bit... I've got some interesting links on Mitose history.
found what I was looking for... This was written by Professor Joe Shuras, 7th dan in Karazenpo ++++++++++++++++++++ As many of you know, I have been doing a pretty comprehensive background check on the history of James M. Mitose and his contributions to our Kempo/Kajukenbo systems. I have been trying to be totally objective and I was never, originally, a Mitose detractor. I became disenchanted with the Mitose history when it just wouldn't hold up to scutiny, not in the least bit. In my quest, I have found some answers. Nothing will ever be totally clear and objective when it comes to the history of any martial art but what I am looking for is some factual evidence, some circumstantial evidence, a little logic and a basic framework of the man's legacy that makes sense. I have had my ups and down on it and my investigation is still not complete but here is what I feel is reasonable so far: Let's start with Jinshi Eison, fact or fiction? Well, yes and no. Don't get me wrong I have a definite answer on that but it has a little explaining. Jinshi Eison lived in just the right time period we are looking at, circa. 1200. He studied in China, his Buddhist name was Kosho Bosatsu. So, it looks legit, right? Wrong. The Kanji used for Kosho in this case did not mean 'old pine tree'. It's like the kanji used for kara in karate. It can mean China (Tang) or empty. Eison's life was extremely well documented and nothing lined up and matched. However, according to Mitose, Kosho ryu is a sect of Zen Buddhism based on the Rinzai Zen which was introduced into Japan in 1191 by the priest Eisai. Mitose considered Eisai, and for that matter Rinzai (lin chi) and Daruma himself as being his ancestors. This is something he prided himself on. Jinshi Eisan was a misinterpretation of Mitose's words (his English was poor). 1191 was when the religious Rinzai sect (lin chi) Kosho Shorei Ryu was founded. The martial art, Kosho Ryu wasn't developed until about 350 years later, around 1560. The Tracy's begin their lineage (which I will get to shortly) at 1232 AD with Zenko Yoshida. Not only is that the wrong clan but you couldn't possibly have 21 descendants to Mitose in that time period. Martial art ryus weren't developed that early on, those were the religious rinzai sects that started around circa.1200, the martial art came much later. They're about 350 years off! The Yoshida lineage leads to dead ends and where did Kosho come from? Mitose had three grandfathers. Records provided to Shihan Michael Brown, the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai historian, shows three families from Japan. 1) the Mitose family (his father's side), 2) the Yoshida family (his mother's biological father), and the Kosho family (his mother's biological mother). Mitose's maternal grandparents were not married. His mother was raised by her biological father (Mr. Yoshida) until she was 17 years old, then she was adopted by her biological mother who had married into the Kosho family. Besides the obvious connection with the name Kosho, this was the only grandfather alive when Mitose arrived in Japan in October of 1920. James Mitose's maternal grandparents were Yoshida Sakuhei (the father of Mitose Kyoka). Kosho Toju (the mother of Mitose Kiyoka). Mitose's grandmother was not the wife of Mr. Yoshida. Kiyoka was the result of an affair. This is in the family record. The Tracy Yoshida lineage to Kosho ryu has no merit. They do not go back to the family art of Kosho. The Kosho art goes back 21 generations. Mitose's grandfather that he learned the family art from was Kosho Kyohei. This is recorded in the family records although there is no written proof that he trained at the Shaka In Temple as of yet and may never be. There are records there mentioning the term Kosho ryu. A local historian, whom I do not have his name as of this posting, stated martial arts was being practiced there up until just before WW2. The Tracy's are barking up the wrong tree, lineage tree that is! They traced the wrong grandfather, Yoshida Sakuhei. He wasn't even alive when Mitose was 4 years old. Shaka In temple. Kosho monks and martial arts: truth or fiction? Documents provided and further research to confirm this on the internet into historical records shows that in October of 1588 the warrior monks of Shaka In clashed with the forces of Konishi Yukinaga. The battlefield is perserved to this day. I gratefully acknowledge the assistance of Shihan Mike Brown, historian of the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai for his tireless and unselfish efforts in researching this' tangled web'. All that I have learned in this post came from Shihan Brown's research and I take no credit for it other than my continuing efforts in a search for the truth on this enigma. Respectfully, Shihan Joe Shuras ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
kenpo/kempo kata I am very novice at MA, have been training since Mar., 2005. Does anyone know of a video or graphic representation of Kempo Kata long 1 and short 1. I have a bit of difficulty with them. Thanks
kenpo I am a student of Nippon Kenpo and have been for 18 years. American Kenpo is an American (Ed Parker) system of an oriental art. When something is adaped from its original form it is no longer "traditional" to its original form it is "traditional" to its own right. If this helps any. Ihope it does I am not really familliar with Ed Parkers system I'm not knocking it just have never been a student of his system.
hey, i know its off the topic but i really need to know something.im 15 years old 5"6'' and 200 pounds. i wanted to lose weight so i started chinese kenpo. i want to know is this a good workouit and will it help me lose whiegt. i need an answer back pleez thanks.
That is entirely dependant on your instructor. Some days I go to class and I leave a sweaty,shaking mess. Other days my brain gets the workout. ButI am paying for martial arts lessons, not to do calisthenics... I pay the gym for that.
I guess it depends. Do you do any kind of exercise now? if not, then starting a martial art will be some exercise and that will improve your fitness. but if you already exercise then it probably will not be a big difference. If all you want is to get in shape, you would be better off joining a gym or just buying some running shoes and running every day. If my MA classes wre focused on getting in shape, I would feel like I was not getting what I paid for. Being fit is important - all the technique in the world is not going to help you if you gas out and are puking on the sidewalk. It's just that I don't feel like the dojo is the place to go to lose weight.
Yes I to disagree with the Tracy brothers attempt to link thier art with Mitose and also with the so-called Original style of Parker's Kenpo. I know the Tracy brothers, it is what it is. The history of Kenpo/Kempo is bit obscure because it was being developed in different parts of the Japan at the same time, I don't think there is any argument that it originated in China. IN your research have you come across a martial art develop by the Egyptians? This might place the Egyptian martial art system as the oldest and quite possibly the first of it's kind. In my 30 years of martial arts I met all kinds, some good some bad, some credible and some frauds, it is what it is. Nice talking with you.
