Unarmed blocking techniques

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Morik, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So I train Muay Thai, and I'm curious how applicable some of the blocks would be outside of sport usage.

    So some of the blocks are doable exactly as-is outside of sport. E.g., the cover blocks where you use your arm tight against your head/torso.

    But what about the standard block vs jabs/straight punches? We are taught to brace our gloves against our forehead and make a wall with the gloves.
    I haven't trained boxing but from watching it, the block is similar (or maybe identical).

    When one isn't wearing big gloves, is that type of block effective?

    And sort of the inverse question: Some styles (e.g., a JJJ school I trained at for a bit) have blocks where you use your arm to parry their strike.
    Is the reason we don't see those types of blocks in sports due to having on large gloves which make it hard to do well? Or is it just that being able to make a big glove wall is more effective than those blocks, so in the sports where you are wearing big gloves you just block with the gloves?
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You find in MMA and in street fights the smaller gloves/no gloves do make a difference. Generally Crazy Monkey Defense is a good start. You also have to remember that fighting is not about technique vs technique. You have a lot of head movement that you could use instead of blocking. Timing and distance over technique.
     
  3. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    As Chadderz says distance is key

    Removing gloves changes things, as does clothing and the options to mix grabbing with strikes, kick etc

    If you are considering weapons then things change further. The ideal distance generally extends and the arm position changes to minimise injury and provide options to control or strike the arm
     
  4. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If you put your arms near

    - your own head, you put yourself into a defense mode. You have given your opponent all the space that he needs, allow him to have enough space to generate his fast and powerful punch.

    - your opponent's head, you put yourself into an offense mode. You don't given your opponent enough space that he needs. You can interrupt his punch during the early stage when speed and power have not yet been fully generated.

    IMO, it's better to fight in your opponent's territory than to fight in your own territory. Muhammad Ali used to straight his leading arm, put his fist right in front of his opponent's face. I have always though that was an excellent strategy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    generally parry type blocks
    a) require a much bigger skill difference to use
    b) often don't take boxing counter punchs into account.

    Cover up blocks tend to be good to get people to relax in sparring, so that they can start using foot work, slipping and clinching.
     
  6. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah we do train that--our instructor calls it "posting" your arm. (I think there is some other term he used too, but I don't recall it.)
    I haven't been given an actual lesson on it, but learned it from training partners during sparring, and we do incorporate it into bag work sometimes.
    I am just starting to learn, so right now I only use it if I feel like I need to keep my opponent out of my space for a second or two for repositioning/catch a breather/they are throwing a longer combo and I want to interrupt them.


    My main motivation for starting this thread is to find out whether that gloved blocking technique* is actively bad when unarmed. Cause my guess is if I don't somehow stop it, that is where my muscle memory is going to learn to go when someone is strking at the front of my face.
    Should I just not worry about it and if I get into a self defense situation and end up blocking like that, I will probably be fine?

    I don't have time in my schedule to also train unarmed blocking techniques to have different muscle memory...

    I guess this sort of goes into the argument of how to train if you are training for SD. There are probably at least a few things from both things I train (Muay Thai, BJJ) that are inferior/bad to do in a no-rules situation but optimal under the sport ruleset. E.g., some of the BJJ positions we train probably leave me very open for strikes/groin striking & grabbing shenanigans/etc that aren't legal in BJJ.

    I probably just won't worry about it, as I don't think there is much I can do about it unless I'm willing to spend additional time training differently than I do in Muay Thai/BJJ. (Eventually I may integrate those together with MMA style classes.)

    * EDIT: To make sure I'm being clear--talking about bracing gloves against forehead & making a wall in front of your face (from further upthread), not arm posting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The same principle can be applied in both sport and combat. If you extend your arm and occupy your opponent striking path, before his fist can reach to your face, his fist has to deal with your arms first. This kind of "I'm here first" strategy can make the fist fight simpler.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  8. Dillon

    Dillon Valued Member

    There are a few things in sport systems that are sub-optimal for SD. There are things in gloved sport systems that are sub optimal in non-gloved sport systems (my kyokushin teacher illustrated this to me when I came over from boxing - I used a peekaboo guard and he "pointed out" that while in knockdown you can't punch the head, you can punch the hand...).

    That said, the training methods of sport fighting are so vastly superior to most "non sport" methods, that it's not something to actively worry about. If you are worried, it's not that hard to convert the methodology over - odds are good that the best "self defense" program is a strong sport fighting base, mixed with context-specific self defense training. Absent that, just the sport system handles itself well.
     
  9. GoldShifter

    GoldShifter The MachineGun Roundhouse

    I've found that using your gloves as a wall work so much better than using the forearm to parry, like with an outward block.

    I believe that the glove wall has higher reliability because of the size of the gloves. When you have smaller gloves or no gloves, I've noticed that people will parry more often with the hands or forearms.
     
  10. kandi

    kandi Valued Member

    I've never heard of the crazy monkey defense before. Is this just arms and legs going wild? I youtubed it, but not sure if I can post links yet or at all, to confirm you're talking about the same thing.
     
  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Haha, when guys demonstrate it they throw up their hands in a wild manner, but when using it in MMA/street fighting it's used efficiently.

    Like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qguQfn0QtBs

    its this ^

    Its similar to the boxing "philly shell"
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Philly shell is completely different to crazy monkey. Philly she'll is one hand covering and catching with a raised lead shoulder and the other hand really low. Floyd Mayweather being king of the style.
     
  14. kandi

    kandi Valued Member

    Thanks Chadz.

    Makes sense, but how do you strike effectively from that kind of guarD?
     
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Excellent question. Primarily the CMD is used for defence alone. So when you're striking you can "open up" and strike as you normally would.

    Like your hands could be slightly low, and you fire off like normal, and when you are defending your hands go up to the Crown of your head and you start defending.

    Not to be confused with the Keysi Fighting Method where they DO strike from that position.
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Thanks, I assumed it was similar, cheers!
     
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Its not a static guard, its also not the only guard used in CMD, the isolation drills on video are just focusing on one portion of the fight.
     

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