heard of this style?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by findurinsanity, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. findurinsanity

    findurinsanity New Member

    has anyone ever heard of tiek soo chang or teek soo chang? im not sure how to spell it but has anyone heard of it and if so what is it like and is it effective?

    thanks
     
  2. grand ninja

    grand ninja New Member

    all i can tell you is that Kyoshi Wiggins 7th dan in the Okinawan Karate Federation received his Black Belt/Sash after 27 years from his teacher "Head Instructor" Sifu William Roy of Tiek Soo Chang Ch'uan Fa.
     
  3. Enigma1923

    Enigma1923 New Member

    I've heard of it

    I've heard of it, studied it, and know the people involved in it. It's been nearly a year since your post and I just discovered this site now...but if you're still interested, I'll tell what I know. Respectfully, Sifu A.
     
  4. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    Hello. I'm currently a yellow belt in Tiek Soo Chang, with the opportunity to continue study. I wanted to know more about Sigung Bill Roy. Does anyone have any good stories about him from his kickboxing days?
     
  5. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Sorry I couldn't find any record of any fight involving your sigung.

    Interesting that in your style -''There haven't been any new forms in the system, and no substantial changes in, at the very least, a century. Most of our forms have been around for 500 years. I have heard that the foot placement for some our most fundamental forms are worn into stones at a temple in China, from generations of monks practicing them.'' but the grandmaster has been out kickboxing and there are BJJ instructors in some of your clubs. Not that I have any problem with that but these things don't sound very traditional.

    Can you point us to a web page to tell us a bit more on this system? It seems that the forms that were on YouTube were removed by the page owner and I yet to see how this style is practised.

    LFD
     
  6. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Here is your Sigung doing a spear set and some guys doing sort of a two man set. Is this representative of what you do at your school?? Thanks, LFD.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR0X-uCfUQs"]Tiek soo chang evasion technique - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3501t9cCtL4"]tiek soo chang cheung form by Bill Roy - YouTube[/ame]
     
  7. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I just threw up in my mouth a little bit... :jawdrop:

    I would say this is more in the realms of 'extreme martial arts', rather than traditional Chinese martial arts.

    I've heard that story about footprints being pounded into the floors of temples from half a dozen styles - so I wouldn't pay it much credence.


    And what's with the Japanese Do-Gi??
     
  8. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I just wanted to post the vids of this style that hasn't changed in 500 years...

    Interestingly it looks sorta like a garden version of some sort of kempo (or some derivation)
    Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that if that is what you want to study...

    Odd that people get taken in my what instructors tell them no matter what the stuff they do looks like... karete-gi .. cheap clothing maybe? Again reminiscent of kempo :' D

    LFD
     
  9. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    Hmm I'd hate to think I've been taken in but it's hard to discredit your insights. what about a style called Dong shou chang? has anyone heard of this? It doesn't have a wikipedia page either, but I can only hope that the sum of the worlds knowledge is not embodied by wikipedia and that it still exists in some capacity other than as a smoke screen or flavor for what is essentially a "made up sytem" with no legitimate claim to the ancient pedigree that we tout about. After all, I have met several people who have studied this art for many years and who are absolutely convinced of its worth. Do I trade what I've seen with my own eyes for the dismissal of Tiek Soo Chang by anonymous voices from the ethernet? It is difficult to muddle through, and I've yet to think of a sufficiently tactful way to ask sigung if his art is a bunch of malarkey and if he's living so far up in the hills because he has to insulate himself and his teachings from a history of conflict with the larger martial arts community. Does anyone have any further insight or advice?
     
  10. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    Also, in light of how "Tiek Soo Chang" is a pretty narrow search field on google I can only assume other students of Tiek Soo Chang will some day find this. I feel a bit guilty trolling the internet for info and casting anything negative on the art, but I feel like getting opinions from outside the school is one of the few ways to get a complete picture. knowledge is power, they say.
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    What are your goals for training CuriousKwoon? It's difficult to tell you what an art is worth, or whether you should keep training it without knowing what you're looking for.

    [​IMG]

    If Bill Roy tells you how to grow his mustache, I'd say keep at it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  12. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1x0xdNN68s"]One inch board bites the dust - YouTube[/ame]

    one finger board break performed by sigung bill roy.
     
  13. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Lookatdatmustache.
     
  14. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    well, I'm looking for something that rewards me the more I work at it, something that gives me practical fighting experience and helps me grow physically and mentally. The people involved in the art have shown me all these things are mine if I continue study, but committing to the road is so huge, I don't want niggling doubts telling me what a chump I am for being so docilely spoon fed an entire new life philosophy. I just feel like a little more background about the art would lay those doubts to rest.
     
  15. CuriousKwoon

    CuriousKwoon New Member

    But the mustache is a compelling argument.
     
  16. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I'd say philosophy and history, all of that, is just baggage that comes after the practical fighting techniques. The best way I know to do that is live training. If you want to learn how to break boards with your finger, this place seems A+. It's difficult for me to tell if they have any fighting ability with demonstrations of board breaking and kata.
     
  17. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    "When You and I Were Young,Maggie"...

    ...Alan Lee was a known guy here in the US-never heard any silly 500 year old claims then. It was known that Lee had studied (in various depths) systems both northern and southern and had created a progressive training syllabus of his own from this. It's really his own system,wasn't any secret nor considered a big deal by many that he had made his own system.(Wasn't any Ken/mpo in it as far as was known).

    Mostly because it was known his folks trained hard and had skills. At different times I was acquainted with a couple guys who had studied under him-we mixed it up on various occasions and those guys at least were not slouches.Very interesting guys to come up to scratch with.Ow.

    Now,why are his lineal descendants now wearing Karate outfits with T'ang Lang patches on them? Touting their system as 500 years old?All I can say is "Huh?"

    Oh yeah,it was just called Alan Lee's Kung Fu Wu Su in them days.
     
  18. blackhat

    blackhat New Member

    I would like to address the question that has been asked on this site, “What is Tiek Soo Chang? Has anyone ever heard of it?”
    To me, to my students of my three schools, and to my instructor, we know Tiek Soo Chang is legitimate because we know Master William Roy. Anyone who knows this man, has worked with him, or has had the pleasure to be instructed by him, know him to be beyond reproach. He teaches Tiek Soo Chang Ch’uan Fa. He doesn’t claim to know six other systems, doesn’t bastardize his system with the techniques of others, he claims and teaches only Tiek Soo Chang, Chinese Temple Boxing. I am not a member of this system, or his organization, but basically grew up in the martial arts for 22 years knowing and watching him. In 22 years of knowing him, and attending tournaments in Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and California, any competition that I attended either as a spectator or competitor, I’ve never seen him lose in competition. NEVER. Be it forms, weapons, or fighting, he has always excelled. My instructor, who has known him for over 30 years when they both lived on the east coast, said that his system and he was just as dynamic then as he is today.
    We martial artists are quite observant to our colleagues. We can tell instantly who knows what they say they know, and who does not. We immediately turn to our obvious modem, which would be the tournament circuit. If that is how we are going to begin gauging Tiek Soo Chang, then judging by its instructors, and even its under-belts, this system stands on its own merits. I teach all my students that they have as good a chance as anyone when entering competition to win. But, for years, I as well as many of our local colleagues, openly recognized the advanced abilities of the students of Master Roy and his Black Belts. They have for years set the bar for all of us to beat.
    Do I know Tiek Soo Chang? No. Am I sure it’s a legitimate system? A resounding yes. Judging by his humble and professional demeanor, and the fact that he has been part of the martial arts or 50 years, I find it repulsive for these idiots to criticize this man they do not know, and criticizing a system because they can’t fulfill their appetites about it. Any rational person, any true martial artist that has learned anything about respect, discipline, and humility, would never come to the conclusion that some of the rude a disrespectful wannabe martial artists I’ve seen on this site should be ashamed. The hundreds of us that know Master Roy, his black belts, and his students nationwide, find this offensive and obviously not of the martial arts.
    You ask if I’ve ever heard of Tiek Soo Chang. Is it legitimate? Absolutely. Just look at those that wear that patch represent that system with pride in its history, with confidence in its technology and theory, and by the instruction of a very capable Master. Its more legitimate than most legitimate martial arts I know. And, in the end, isn’t that what the martial arts is? Respect for what the system displays and the professional attitudes for those that study it from white belt to black belt. All you know-it-alls are very obnoxious to those of us who do.
    A great Chinese proverb states:
    Great people talk about great ideas
    Average people talk about things
    Small people talk about other people

    While attending one of Master Roy’s fight clinics, he once said to everyone there:
    The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    While your dedication to this person is admirable some of your reasoning is a little off.
     
  20. blackhat

    blackhat New Member

    How do you mean a bit off?
     

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