I have asked around and I understand that the vast majority of techniques that Catch Wrestlers learn are not safe for kids. However it would seem to me with the vast array of techniques available in any grappling art that there should be a way to make a list however small of the submissions from Catch Wrestling that are legal in Youth No-GI BJJ and make a game plan around them. This is an example of a set of youth BJJ rules for a local tournament. Illegal Techniques for ALL AGES & ALL DIVISIONS NO Striking of any kind NO Slamming NO Biting, Hair pulling or Eye-Gouging NO fingers to the throat NO Small Joint Manipulation (Fingers, Toes, etc) NO Pressure points NO Knees or Elbows in the face NO Stalling or running from the fight NO Swearing or obscene gestures Illegal Techniques for KIDS up to 15 years old Illegal Techniques for ALL AGES & ALL DIVISIONS will apply plus the following: NO Ezequiel Chokes NO Attacks below the waist (i.e. NO Foot Locks, Heel Hooks, Knee Bars, Toe holds) NO Guillotine Chokes NO Neck Cranks NO Cervical Locks (i.e. crucifix) NO Pulling the head while in the Guard (Can Opener) NO Triangle while pulling the Head NO Wrist Locks NO Calf Locks NO Scissors Takedown NO Biceps Locks NO Omoplata (Shoulder Lock) (The referee reserves the right to stop a choke if the neck or spine is compromised) So with this question, what do you think?
So far on a couple of Catch forums I am part of, this is what has been suggested: RNC, Guillotine, Triangle, Arm Triangle, Double Wrist Lock, Paint Brush. V-arm lock with arms or legs, Straight Arm Lock with arms or legs.
This likely wont help but I will offer my two cents worth here. We dont do pure Jujitsu or judo and the wrestleing we use is mostly for takedowns and takedown defense so I couldnt really say much about the joint manipulations. Zanshin Karate is a hybrid martial art so that said we strike alot, a whole lot actually. My suggestion is that wrestleing is awesome as a means of moveing and pummleing for position as well as staying on your feet believe it or not although judo has helped me with that somewhat it still isnt grea for the No gi aplication. When I said moveing I also mean moveing on the ground, we use it exclusively when we talk about traverseing on the ground. Now as I mentioned we strike alot a whle lot but that said we also use Jujitsu to choke people out, lets face it Jujitsu has a corner on the market. If you cant get the picture Im a stand up fighter but I will choke you if you give me the opertunity. Your situation is a little different cause your wanting to roll in a BJJ match with some kids, if anything try catch for the movement and pummleing drills, also for takedowns and takedown defense, and keep on keepin on with training Jujitsu for locks and chokes.
I assume they feel that the ezekiel threatens the larynx too much. Biceps cutters are banned because jitz people consider them dirty
I honestly have no idea. I have found trying to understand youth BJJ rules is very frustrating. And from what my Sensei says, the rules can literally change right as you arrive at a tournament. Like sometimes arm bars are legal, and sometimes they are not, and sometimes they are legal but the referee stops the match before the child cranks the submission and declares it a submission before the other child taps.
Meanwhile... [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ3fNmoBsUE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ3fNmoBsUE[/ame]
its strange! i guess the guillotine and ezekiel pressure the throat too much. IIRC in older tournaments, the RNC was one of the few barred holds in american catch wrestling and was considered a "dirty stranglehold" (at least according to an article posted by the snake pit). it's weird that you cant omoplata but you can pull DWL and v-lock. i would add hammerlocking to the list of legal techniques as well as omoplatas.
I don't have much of a problem with that though. There's a similiar rule at the grappling interclubs my gym hosts and my coach's reasoning is that its your fault you ended up in that position so don't moan that he didn't let you do some last ditch defence. I don't mind it there and that's with adults. Fine with it at kid comps.
I am not really complaining about any of the above solutions, what would be nice is some consistency. If my kids free wrestle and drill with arm bars and then they become muscle memory and then suddenly they are not legal, then it can cause them problems.
I haven't communicated with that organization yet, but from my understanding in Catch rules you can win by pin or submission.
Youth NAGA rules seem a bit more easy to understand, and have more options. http://www.nagafighter.com/pdf/2014_naga_rules.pdf
Martial arts Tournaments are like that, and yes it can be frustrating and unfair. One good thing about MMA is that each league has a set of rules it sticks with, random martial arts tournaments arnt like that though. When I was a kid we would go to tournaments and sometimes you could sweep or throw your opponet and some times you couldnt, how messed up is that.
I talked to a Catch Wrestler today and asked him what the fundamental differences were between the way Catch Wrestling is taught and the way BJJ is taught and he agreed with my assessment that while wrestlers can take BJJ, BJJ "feels" different. BJJ players "move" different. My daughter for example is adapting but as I watch her roll with BJJ and Judo kids she looks foreign to them. That's one of the reasons I was hoping that there could be a catch curriculum that was kid friendly, so that youth wrestlers can enter submission tournaments.
Oh I just remembered that the freestyle judo org has an open ruleset with pins, subs and leg takedowns. Might be useful