Rape Culture

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Pretty In Pink, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Eh, no. Nice try but I've known 'no' to mean 'no, try harder' and not 'no, go away'. If you are under the misapprehension that when a woman says yes or no -regardless of whether sex is involved or not- , it means only yes or no, you are wrong.

    By the same token, 'fine' can mean 'fine' or 'don't you dare'. Or are you denying that as well? It would be great if language was black and white, but it's not, as most married men can tell you. There can be a big difference between the words that are used and the message that is implied. I've had scenarios where I asked a direct question of my wife, and she gave me a direct answer, that turned out to be the exact opposite of what she meant at the time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Wow, so your saying you have personally ignored a sexual patner saying no to you, and carried on anyway? Because you could tell she really meant yes?

    Rapey comnent is rapey.

    No wonder you also defend mike tyson.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Question for you, if a hundred women say no to you, and you take that to mean try harder, in how many of those 100, will you of got the subtext wrong?
     
  4. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I'm not saying the man has never raped anyone, but that whole Desiree Washington thing was bogus, i mean, if you claim to be locked in a bathroom for two hours with no way of escaping, i highly doubt you never notice the telephone mounted on the wall.
     
  5. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Can't you tell the difference between a playful no and a 'i mean it no'.
    One means we don't have sex, the other means I have to tease her more. Or she presses herself against me to indicate that the engine is not running yet and I have to preheat. It doesn't mean I force myself on her. Sheesh. Everything is really black and white in your world?

    And thanks for twisting my words. I have not defended Mike Tyson or what he did. I said he served his sentence and has never gotten in hot water over anything sex related since then.

    Btw I don't know what you consider sex, but it is an interactive pay between 2 people (in my case). It is not a matter of one person laying there and the other doing his thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  6. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    I don't know about you, but I've only had sex with the woman (singular) I had a relationship with and married. And yes, I had to learn the difference between a playful no and a real no, because the first time I misjudged the playful no to be a real no I left her alone and she was annoyed with me that I did.

    I guess the difference is harder to make with random women, but then again I think having sex with random people isn't a good idea. But that is another discussion.
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Wouldnt you agree that the consequences of getting that call wrong mean that
    "no should mean no" I would rather upset 100's of women then rape just 1, but maybe that's just me.
     
  8. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    But the examples both me and Count are talking about aren't ambiguous. I'm not sure how to explain it any clearer terms so I have to assume its just something you haven't experienced before. We're not talking about a woman stating no factually and you thinking "meh, give it a shot anyway in case she's playing" I mean a woman climbing over you and giving a very giggly or a clearly playful no while continuing to do whatever the two of you were doing anyway.

    edit: Two extra points

    1. *than, or your post means something very different :p

    2. Maybe stop with sideways calling people rapists or want to be rapists? Not particularly productive and its one hell of an accusation to level at someone that you want to be very careful with.
     
  9. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    +12345
    Glad that I am not the only one.

    Additionally, I don't know what other people generally do, but 100% of all women I've ever had sex with (i.e. the one), I dated for quite a while, and by the time we started having sex, we knew each other quite well. I really don't see what the '100 women' argument has to do with anything. As I said earlier, I don't believe in having sex with random people so the question does not apply.
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I'm in the middle here.
    As a general rule "no meaning no" is absolutely a hard and fast thing.
    Live by that and you won't go far wrong. Teach kids that.

    However..in a long term relationship "no" can mean "Not now I'm knackered", "the kids might hear us", "I'm not in the mood but can be persuaded", etc etc.
    But...unless you've had sex with the person saying "no" at least 50 times I'd say you need to stick to "no means no" and even then proceed with caution.
     
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'll actually throw another example on top of that one for the sake of balance: I've done it myself before. A lady asked me to do something, I groaned and acted (very overtly acting mind you. Yay drama GCSEs!) like it was a chore and then did it anyway. Should she have pushed me away and called it a night there and then because the word "no" came out of my mouth in a context that very clearly wasn't serious, or did she do what people do all the time and used intelligence and context/speech clues to tell I wasn't being serious?
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Pushing the hoover round from time to time isn't that big a deal is it? :)
     
  13. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Its also where asking more than once comes into play. I keep it as a rule to ask "on the doorstep" just because of things like that. The kind of no I've been talking about not being a no is, far as I can imagine, strictly a foreplay thing. There's no situation I would hear a no at the latter point and think its playful because it likely isn't going to be.

    Although I did know a woman once who's kink was that she liked rape roleplay. That's a jar of bees for anyone she sleeps with I imagine. Then again, she was upfront about it beforehand and I assume established some form of safe word so maybe it wouldn't be a problem. Meh. People are weird and far too complicated.
     
  14. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    You've never seen my flat
     
  15. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    I sprayed my cup of tea over my laptop when I read that - thanks for that!
     
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Actually that's a pretty good euphemism.
    "Pushing the hoover round". :)
     
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If you always take no to mean no, then its pretty hard to be a rapist, which ligically also means the opposite is true, thats the plain facts, if you don't like the logical consequences of that, then that's not my problem.
     
  18. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Agreed, context is important, as is training partners to say what they actually mean, im still working on that one, but id much rather err on the side of caution.
     
  19. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    You did pretty much call Count a rapist on the last page despite it being obvious to anyone who understands speech involves more than just the words what the context of his comment was.

    And no, the logical conclusion from your posts is that you don't understand the above, not that anyone who doesn't take every no as a no is likely to become a rapist.
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interestingly if you Google

    "No doesnt always mean no"

    The first few pages are interviews with rush limbaugh and nigel farrage.

    This one is intetesting as it claims men who think no doesnt always mean no are an example of rape cultre -
     

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