Sulkido (British Kuk Sool) History

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Pugil, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Oh yes, a quick question for you:

    As you have been involved in the WKSA right from the start in the US (presumably including at least having access to and being able to see GM IHS at least once every year), how do you feel about eight people(?) in the UK, who have not been in Kuk Sool for as long as you, being graded over you? I bet that must get stuck in a place that's hard to scratch eh!
     
  2. Dragonkarma

    Dragonkarma Valued Member

    sulkido/Kim Mok Yum

    It is wise of the British gov to try and have some influences on martial arts orgs in their country-we need that here in the U.S..

    Master Kim Mok Yum wouldn't need to defend himself-just give credit where credit is due. Having known him, I found him to be a good martial artist and a nice person. I really enjoyed meeting and talking with him .

    As for my going away-get used to disappointment.

    As for being "passed over" in rank-who cares ? That doesn't mean anything in relation to knowledge and skill. I am Kuk Sa Nym's student. It would surprise folks to learn how much I know.

    Good luck with sulkido. Everyone thinks it's easy to go out and start , then grow an association. It's taken Kuk Sool Won 50 years. Many of the folks who left to start their own won't live long enough to see it become as successful as KSW.
     
  3. Dragonkarma

    Dragonkarma Valued Member

    pugil

    Bite me
     
  4. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Hello Pugil and Dragonkarma Just wanted to comment that it does not matter Who started What and what technique is better than this technique. The person practicing the Martial Art or Arts has a different body built and everything can be modified for that person. The Art is just a way for beginner to learn and adapt. We should all get along and not carry on about this and that. We are all Family in the Martial Arts World. I know that both of you know my History because I was there in the beginning. We all have to make choices about what we want to do in the Martial Arts. We can stay with an Association or start our own Association. In Reality we are all on a journey and it depends on how we cope with life difficulities and keep moving forward. Does the Association want Loyality or Profit. (theory) What if you were to spend nearly 40 years in an association and all of a sudden It comes down to Yourself or one of your Students who get to keep the only Professional School. You are told that it is business. The same Student whom you let open a school 3 or 4 miles away from your school because you wants as many association schools around, will not let you open a school 5 or 6 miles from his school because of it being just business. Where is the Fairness and Loyality. I didn't mean to get off track but there are a lot of variables out there in the real world and it all depends on how we react to it. WE all carry extra baggage around. So let just say that it is OK to disagree but be civil about it.
     
  5. Unjeesunsu

    Unjeesunsu Valued Member

    Dragon2

    I think I’m about to derail this thread…………..sorry, can’t help it.

    First of all, those that say “I was there from the beginning” tend to forget that there were others, like you for example. With your post I realized that I think I know who you are and I know that you were one of the few that truly have been with the Grandmaster from the beginning. I also know in what position you are in right now, unless there are more callous people like that guy you described. There are a number of people already talking about that matter and the crap he is pulling might cave in on him fairly soon.

    There used to be a time and cases where school owners worked things out among each other or Kuk Sa Nim took over and made the decision for them. Now, it’s all about business, all about money even if it means to backstab your Master. In your case it would be, your former student backstabbing you to take over your students. Kuk Sa Nim does not have the power for decision making anymore, it’s Sa Mo Nim, Alex Suh and the lawyers.

    When it comes to your point “we are all family in the Martial Arts World” that sounds really nice and the way it should be. When it comes to the “Won” and our beautiful saying of “We are all brothers and sisters” many know that this is mostly BS. It seems that the association does not treat everybody fairly. What’s good for one school owner might not be necessarily the same for another. There are KSW school owners that have pulled pretty bad stunts and nothing happened others have experienced tough times and were kicked out. Where was the association to help these schools owners and their students? The decisions the association makes about a school owner does not only effect him personally but also each and every student who has put their time, effort, trust and money into a school. It happened before that students were left standing in the rain and the association moved on and didn’t give a crap about them. Martial Arts Family….,Brothers and Sisters….,not quite.

    I agree (to a point) that it should not matter who started what and don’t think anybody will be able to 100 % proof the true roots of Kuk Sool Won and what was taken from whom and who splintered when and from what. If anybody can, PLEASE do so, because I’m not patient enough nor do I have the time to do the research but it would be interesting to know. Fact is that some of the stories are just not kosher. We’ll still teach what we know but at least we are aware of what the truth is before we give KSW history lessons to our students.

    Sure enough, I’m a little off topic, sorry, I just felt it needed to be said. .

    Unjee
     
  6. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    When I posted the above article, I simply did so for historical reference. To be honest, I don't think that anyone should be able to post replies on here, not even the person who first posted the article. Instead they should take it onto the Forums so that everyone is in a position to pick up on what is being (or has been) said.

    Dragon2 says: "I know that both of you know my History because I was there in the beginning." To be honest, and no offence meant but, I haven't a clue who you are. If you want me to know, PM me. In any case, the beginning of what? Do you mean Kuk Sool generally, or the WKSA? If so, we're talking 1958 perhaps?

    Like I say, no offence meant, and I'm in total agreement with you that life's far too short for all this bollocks!
     
  7. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Hello Pugil You Know me I was with Master Kim, Mod Yang in England in 1973. The only time that we met was in Nov. 1974 at a Demo in Cambridge which you keep saying was Aug. 1975. I was wearing the Black Dobok. I remember when Master Kim told me that he was Teaching us Hap ki do but on the back of his unifrom it had Kuk Sool Won on it. I was there before Master Larry White. I was also doing Kuk Sool Won before it came to the USA. I met Kuk Sa Nym in 1976 in San Francisco and received permission to open a School in the USA. I also met Master Gene Gause at that time. I know of all the changes that Kuk Sool Won went through and I was also in Contact with Master Kim and to what was going on with The British Kuk Sool Association and the reasons that Master Kim started His own Association. I believe that we should all get along no matter what style or if we quit an association or even if we start our own. If we know the truth in our Hearts it does not matter. Life is to short. I try to get along with everyone. I am not upset at my student. He believes in Business and not Loyalty or Friendship. I can live with that. I can weather any storm or situation that does not Kill me. I will not change my Attitude or Feelings because of the way that I believe. I Love what I do but if I have to change there will be no Hard Feelings. I will just adapt and carry on.
     
  8. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Hello Unjeesunsu Thank you for your comments. I am a simple person and I have heard the stories. I do understand the reason why the WKSA does not want the stories out because it is bad for business. I also understand the reasons for one student/Instructor to be looked over for another. The truth is: it is there Business and they make the rules. In the early day most Instructors could do what they wanted but it has all changed. If you cause any headaches for the Association you will be asked to leave. If you do not want to abide by the Rules you can leave. The Choice is up to you. I try to follow all the rules and sometimes I do make mistakes and Kuk Sa Nym forgives because he know my heart. Kuk Sa Nym truly believes in what is happening in WKSA but he is also a very Loving GM to all the Students and does want to help but his hands are also tied to the Rules. We are all like the Prodigal Sons to GM but once we leave we can never come back.
     
  9. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Thanks Dragon2

    Hi Dragon2. Yes, I now know who you are. Thanks for clearing that up.

    As for the demo, we're obviously talking about different events. Needless to say, Master Kim organised several demonstrations over the years. The one that I have mentioned before took place at the Mumford Theatre in Cambridge on Friday 7th November [not August] 1975. You DID NOT feature in that demo. For all I know, you may have already returned to the States by then?

    The names of the USA members listed on the official sheet were: Richard Chandler (USAF), Anderson (USAF), McLaughlin (Mildenhall), Mike Penko (USAF), ?Royster (USAF), Pendergrast (USAF), Webb Avery (USAF), Sam Argulla (USAF), Palmer (USAF), and Ron Cole (USAF).

    Best wishes

    Ollie
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    The reason I put a question mark before Royster's name, by the way, is because it may have been Brewster, who I met again when I went to the SF HQ in 1986.
     
  11. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    Remember the picture I sent of you and 2 other fellows in the white doboks and on the floor in the right corner I think are students wearing the black doboks. That was the time that I was at Cambridge. I left England Aug 1975. You also have the same picture of you and the other 2 fellows but my picture was at a little different angle. I also studied with all the names you mentioned from the Cambridge rooster.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2009
  12. Pugil

    Pugil Seeker of truth

    Yes I do indeed remember, and still have, the pictures you speak of. What happened to Ron Cole? I remember him as being very athletic and quick.
     
  13. Dragon2

    Dragon2 Valued Member

    I know That Mr. Brewster is in Fairfield Ca. Close to Master Larry White School. I think that he talks with him sometimes but I think that Ron cole joined the Services but which one I do not know. He started Mauy Tai in London in the 70's while studing Kuk Sool. If you check with Master White he might know the Answer
     
  14. KJMS

    KJMS Valued Member

    Dragonkarma(AKA Gene Gause) “I was there from the beginning” well,Gene,with the beginning BS to your kung fu background ....and..Karate,I've seen your performance.May I suggest synchronized swimming?Long beach has a meet every other day.All those years you've wasted on this M/A stuff.You're atleast in your late 80's right Gene?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012

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