How would one protect against the "shoot"?

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I use this in lectures.

 

No, it's a gross figure. I'd imagine the bulk of those 35-40% are either where it's two/three on one from the outset or where it's group on group.

 

Is that also including Domestic Violence? Where a lot would be mainly 1 on 1 (familial, partner etc)
Because that would be big boost in those figures.

 

However you could make the counter argument that one on one social violence is under reported which statistically is probably more significant a problem.

 

Ive seen tackles, but more commonly theres some flailing strikes, its hits the clinch, both push and circle, one falls and drags the other one down or they follow, then sometimes its poor GnP or they get back up and start kicking.

Either way learning to wrestle and know groundwork incl. Stand ups is essential.

 

I do too!

 

Ok... well i'm getting myself and you and maybe others confused too. I am asking, if you happened to be in the ring, street, sparring, whatever with one who is technically sound with grappling, how would you protect against/disrupt your opponent from using the shoot or any other takedown. I understand that constant movement from side to side, circling, timing are all part of it, but to answer my own question, it sort of sounds like it's a case of more luck than skill alone. If the opponent gets any sort of his or her own distance, you're going down and it then becomes a ground fight. At least it would seem this way at least.

 

You beat a grappler by being the better grappler, theres no magic pill or iron fist techniques that will change this.

How to stop the shoot, by being the better wrestler.

 

Could not dis-agree more.You don't out box a boxer, you don't out wrestle a wrestler. You do your best to neutralize your opponent's skills and use your own skills as best you can.

You don't have to be a better grappler you just need to be good enough to gain the time to apply your own fighting skills.

Martial arts are not magic. You cannot defend against a shoot if you do not practice defending against the shoot.

However if you can defend against the initial shoot then strikes to the back of the head / neck / spine can cause severe injury or even death.

 

So what you are saying is that 40% of violent crime involves more than one opponent. When talking about people kicking you in the head 40% is a very serious statistic.

 

Ive reposted the important bits of your statement again.

The rate limiting factor of defending a single takedown, is grappling ability.

The rate limiting factor in wining an isolated fight vs someone who can grapple is slightly more complex, but having grappling aability is very very important (as is striking ability)
Wining in real life" with prision and civil lawsuites etc to think about is even more complex, and again having grappling non lethel options will positivity effect the outcome in most situations.

 

Not when you also consider that 40% also includes statistics for more than one victim too. Mass attack vs one is probably in the 10% region overall

 

That entire plan is completely dependent upon stalling the shot and maintaining the top position. With that ability, you could use pretty much any strategy from there anyway. Without it, you have few options and no good ones. Ergo, the deciding factor is wrestling ability.

 

I never said it wasn't.

But add a little realism here. Do unwelcome violent incidents happen? Yes. Are they common? No. Does going to the ground in the above happen? Yes. Is it common? No. Does getting kicked in the head while on the ground happen? Yes. Is it common? No. Should a grappler be wary of taking something to the ground if outside intervention or weapons use is possible? Yes. Do I think most grapplers (or grappling arts based people) would deliberately take something to ground regardless? No. Do I think it is important to have some kind of ground 'game'? Yes. Do I think it's the most important part of my repertoire? No.

 

If were arguing SD training, what percentage of training do you spend drilling karate kata vs training wrestling and groundwork (which can be 2 very different things.)

 

When you say drilling karate kata do you mean solo or paired (which can be 2 very different things)?

Solo kata (in group training) makes up a tiny proportion of my training, varying according to whether I'm teaching DART Karate or Shotokan Karate. Paired training of the same (of which probably 70- 80% could be considered integrated wrestling and striking and in which the two karate styles differ in groundwork) probably makes up 65% of group training time, with impact training and associated positioning and reaction drills making up about 30%.

If I'm on my own (and most of my personal training is on my own) then karate kata (in various formats - fixed or free) makes up the majority of my training unless I have impact equipment (eg a bag or a post) to hand.