Bas Rutten Just Shared This:

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Pretty In Pink, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, it's pretty much at the bottom of my list, too.
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Here's more on biting from Vunak:

    RUDE WORDS WARNING!!!

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2lzv37r_Ss"]Paul Vunak Talks UFC & Art of Biting (Kinamotay) - YouTube[/ame]

    ...not sure I believe that man has a "quiet mind" though ;)
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I can't listen to Vunak without thinking of this chap.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvA18wCO5Cw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvA18wCO5Cw[/ame]
     
  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    For the arm control, it is important to immobilize the elbow between your head and shoulder. This is a multi-purpose movement that applies to both knife and unarmed choke. It helps to prevent your throat being sliced open by a knife so it is a good go to defensive structure when you need a moment to assess the extent of the threat.

    I've used this immobilization of the elbow a lot and it works even without the use of the hand to grab the elbow. I used it against my BJJ instructor and defended the RNC attempt no problem. However, he used his legs and put me in a body triangle. At that point my back arched and hands dropped. He then sunk in the RNC deeply and that was it. First, the immobilization does not work once the RNC is sunk deeply in. Second, I only thought I defended against it, all I did was buy some time to maybe deploy a weapon, it didn't do anything to actually get me out of the bad position I was in.

    Biting makes more sense if there is a knife involved. A bite should be small like a pinch for the greatest effect. Biting through clothes preferred to avoid breaking the skin. This is a bit different than wartime biting.

    Krav Maga can get into wartime biting. They would bite the thumb off or go for major blood vessels, that sort of thing. Bas talked about Krav Maga including mention of biting in an interview:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0jnP7Su_2s"]Bas Bites: Krav Maga - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Devils devils advocaat.......

    If you can control the arm then regular escapes are better - depending on circumstances
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Medicines arnt 100% especially if you've had mouthfulls of blood. (Hep b is especially virulent vs anti virals)

    Also for certain injuries the hospital will report your story to the police so you better be sure that your fighting choice was correct.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  8. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    triple hitler antichrist advocate: circumtance is a harsh mistress.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Agreed, tactics always depend on circumstances.

    biting is a short cut, it takes less time in fight, but isnt a replacement for regular escapes, and takes a lot more time post fight, dealing with its potential consequences.
     
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Not really there are degrees of being stuck in both chokes and locks and relying on an escape which doesn't take into account improving your position or the fact the guy has another free arm isn't the best idea
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I'm not sure that biting those uncles would have been a good idea, I find it hard to believe in 40years of vale tudo fights they hadn't been nibbled on before and managed to deal with it
     
  12. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Biting has a lot more health risks these days than a hundred years ago. Pretty much agreed that you should train better alternatives than biting. However, biting is still useful for learning how to defend against it.

    Why risk making a "mental" mistake by never realizing that it "could happen to you"?

    Escapes are not supposed to be easy. If they were they wouldn't be called escapes.

    Peace time biting is more like a pinch and could be used as a surprise to distract/get a reaction that sets up a regular escape. Still, it is going to depend on circumstance and most don't think it is worth the risks.

    Wartime biting is a weapon used to do maximum damage in the shortest amount of time to the enemy. You really don't care about improving position as per escape, you want to destroy the enemy's weapons and for them to bleed out, this requires being like a dog on a bone. It is psychological warfare too.
    You make the enemy want to escape, not you.

    Wartime biting has little place in peacetime and the health risks are significant.

    Like everything, biting needs to be trained just like other techniques.
     
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    One where did anyone say escapes were easy, please point that out? What was said was an escape that doesn't improve your position isn't really a good option
    Two wartime and peace time? Please who is going to rear naked choke you in wartime if they bother taking your back and its all out war they will be caving your head in, stabbing you or ripping your eyes out, you escalate it and so will he only he will ne on your back and really annoyed and you will pay for it
     
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I must have misunderstood you. I only call something an escape if it improves your positioning. How can you have an escape that doesn't improve your position? I would call that a failed escape.

    The point is that biting doesn't improve your position, it could provide space for you to use a regular trained escape. The other point was that biting in a "war time" technique was not for escape. It was to disable or kill. It was to make the enemy want to escape, not for you to get away.

    Wartime techniques aren't used only in war time. Peacetime techniques aren't used only in peace time. RNC can be used in war or peace time. The difference is in the training. Someone trained to use RNC is more likely to fall back on it than someone trained to snap the neck.

    Not everyone is attacking at the level of war time techniques. Some are just trying to control the situation or maybe use you as a body shield. The term war time refers to things seen and done in war (not just physical but psychological warfare). Wartime techniques exist, but not everyone is in the mindset to use them. Wartime technique is not self-defense. It might save your life, but that is a secondary effect to taking out the enemy or causing the enemy to flee.
     

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