general standards for SandC

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Dead_pool, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Hi all,

    I've just had the idea for putting together both a general and BJJ specific list of standards for S&C and flexibility.

    I'm pretty sure this isn't a new idea, can anyone point me in the right direction?

    This is purely a project for my own training, and I was thinking of progressions as a way to organize it.

    I.e. back squat twice your bodyweight comfortably for 30 reps in total then you can focus in pylometrics or single leg squats etc
    Deadlift your own bodyweight, then you can start to focus on SLD

    Knees to shoulders with no lower spine flexation then work on inverted guard and triangling people much bigger then you.

    That kind of thing.

    Anyone?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I think it's easier to break it up into the components of fitness, i.e. cardio, strength, endurance etc. Here's my suggestions-

    Cardio
    Run 3 miles in 30 minutes/complete Couch to 5K.
    Roll for 5 matches without getting overly fatigued.

    Strength
    Squat twice your bodyweight for 5 reps.
    Deadlift three times your bodyweight for 5 reps.
    Bench press your bodyweight for 5 reps.
    Overhead press your bodyweight for 5 reps.
    Row your bodyweight for 5 reps.
    Power clean your bodyweight for 5 reps.

    Muscular Endurance
    Do 20 gi pull-ups from a dead hang without stopping.
    Hold a flexed-arm hang (on a gi) for 1 minute.
    Do 100 push-ups without stopping.
    Hold a plank for 1 minute.
    Do 100 Hindu squats without stopping.

    Flexibility
    Knees to floor in lotus stretch.
    Palms to floor in standing toe touch stretch.

    Balance/Agility
    Do a handstand.
    Do a cartwheel.
    Do a handstand into forward roll.

    Body Composition
    50 BPM or less resting heart rate.
    10% (male) / 15% (female) body fat or less.

    Just some I can think of, off the top of my head. I would consider these to be starting points and mandatory for anyone looking to get to blue belt or higher.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I was thinking as a progression, like don't do B) until you can do a)

    Just like your more likely to get injured doing plyometrics unless you can squat twice your bodyweight.

    Does that make sense?
     
  4. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    thing is its subjective, basketball players do plyometrics all the time and i bet none of them could squat twice bodyweight to save their lives
    its also subjective depending on weight catagory
    ask a 60 kg fighter to hit a 3x bw deadlift and they might, ask frank mir to do it for a single rep and he will look at you funnily, in fact if a 100kg fighter managed to deadlift 300kg for 5 reps the british powerlfting team would be giving him a call lol

    i think it was either martin rooney or joel jamison who said deadlift twice bodyweight, squat 1.5 to 1.75 bodyweight and bench 1.25 to 1.5 bodyweight are good standards for fighters, as is a resting heart rate of 55bpm, and a 1 min revoery time between rounds to 120bpm
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    We used to use progressional stuff depending on them person and the coach

    At a rugby club I interned at they went through single leg progressions before they ever touched squats but would do cleans from the get go and short distance pylometrics were normal.

    Another place I worked had people squat to any depth they maintained a good position and added in a load of single leg work After at greater ranges.

    I think it was dave Tate who mentionned that one should be able to perform 100 pushups before they ever bench but when I've asked other coaches they mentionned that for many, a bench is a much easier exercise and may develop the strength they need in certainly or groups for push-ups.

    My personal progressions:

    No back squatting until you have a half bodyweight front squat.

    Once you're squatting bw for 15 reps or cleaning it once then you're going to be doing lots of jumps.

    Jump progression in this order. (Based on knee safety and Olympic lifting persuasion)
    Single leg hops -> Vertical jumps -> jumps from squat -> jumps onto a box -> jump on box with quick jump up at top -> vertical jumps that land in a squat -> jumps from a box that land in a squat.

    3rep front squat at 3 quarters body weight then you can probably start doing cleans and you should be able to pull the same amount after a few sessions.

    Snatch high pulls are the pinnacle for anyone who isn't an Olympic lifter (or wanting to compete in o-lifting) should do for a snatch type movement.

    After a 1.5 bodyweight deadlift - heavy farmers or trap bar walks (1.25 and above bw) are a good idea for a grappler and with front squatting in place of dead lifting they'll still keep their strength.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Some of those requirements seem a lot easier than others. Cartwheels are easy...going up to 1-2x bodyweight squats not so much.
    It also shows how far off of being in shape I really am. :(
     
  7. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    :eek:

    That might be fine for you little uns' but what about us fat lummoxes? A 342kg/752lb deadlift for 5 reps would be pretty mental I admit, but still... ;)

    Oooh, I might have to try this. Requires me getting a few more kg in plates but it's doable.

    I'm curious about what you guys would set for activities like tyre flipping, sandbag training and rope work and such? For example, is being able to climb a rope necessary to feel like you have good grip strength or would there be a progression point you aim for before that, etc?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Role climbing pull ups etc are going to be much easier for a light person than heavy one and aren't the best measure of maximal strength but they're certainly worth progressing (use grippers for testing grip strength if you got them). But testing is just testing.

    Personally I prefer open activities like throws, sprints, jumps etc for progressing because they are so variable. Reminds me I need to find some bricks for throwing
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Climbs are an open activity - just to clarify.
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I get that there are probably basic standards for being a fighter but I'm not sure you can assign such standards to being a blue belt in BJJ?
    I doubt there are many bjj blue belts that would get a full house on your list.
    Hell I was one once...and I'd only be able to manage a couple of them at the time (the easy ones!).
    BJJ belts are (or should be) about technically applying what you know of BJJ against a variety of opponents and holding your own against your peers (weight, size etc).
    You hold your own against other blue belts then you're blue belt even if you are fat, unfit, inflexible, weak etc.

    Roy Nelson wouldn't hit some of those standards and he's a legit Renzo blackbelt.
    I bet Rener and Ryron couldn't hot some of them either.
     
  11. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    yeah, i was gonna say, what do you specifically need these standards for? that's what'll tell you to what point you need to get in your S&C. if you're just going for general training then fixed numbers are meaningless, particularly as proportions, genetic variations, technique, etc play a huge role in your lifts' ratios in relation to one another.
     
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I suppose my post was more of a "this is what a competitive player could easily achieve in the 2-3 years it takes to reach blue belt" post. But certain standards - especially the cardio, flexibility, and squat ones - should be a target for anyone just for living a healthy life.
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I can hold a plank for a minute and do a cartwheel!
    I'm mostly there right! After those two the rest are easy.
     
  14. Zabrus

    Zabrus Valued Member

    The other problem with those 'standards' for blue belt, is it doesn't take into account age.
     
  15. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Plenty of 50+ people who can achieve those standards.

    Barring the deadlift (BARring... barbell... geddit?), those standards are relatively easy.
     
  16. Zabrus

    Zabrus Valued Member

    BARring, nice one.

    Flexibility also goes down with age. But yes, most of the ones you mention are relatively easy. But the keyword there is relatively.
     
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Having started some lifting and got up to just shy of body weight back squats I honestly can't see getting to twice that as being relatively easy. :(
     
  18. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Quit your bellyaching, you're British.
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If this is about power to weight ratio, maybe both sides need adjusting, more power and lessweight required.
     

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