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  #31  
Old 16-May-2009, 10:28 PM
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forever young forever young is offline
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Originally Posted by monkeywrench View Post
Great article. I'll have to pass this along to my wife who trains with me. She's lucky however. We have about an even number of guys/gals at our school. Some classes, it's mostly female!


One question for anyone who can address it. How is BJJ in dealing with multiple attackers in a self defense scenario? I see someone asked about self defense for women. I'm quite sure it's very effective against one attacker.

What I recall my current head instructor saying about this topic is ringing in my head right now. He says that grappling isn't the best way to go when you're thinking self defense. He says escape is your goal and going to the ground (which he is an expert at!) is only a last resort. Also, he says once you're on the ground grappling on opponent, the other(s) may be kicking the daylights out of you.
Hi, well dealing firstly with the issue of how bjj fares against multiple or armed assailants who are determined to cause you trauma. The answer is ..... It dont.

To clarify this position further styles/systems that claim they are adept at dealing with either of these situations are generally deluded. To look at it from a simple point of view, could you handle two or even three of YOURSELF?? What about Two or three who are say bigger and /or stronger than you?? what about two or three of your teacher?? you begin to see how realisically survival or at the very least avoiding serious injury in an altercation that involves any of those variables is going to depend more on luck than anything else.

To address the second issue of what your instructor told you, well from a self defence pov he is correct, but again you must look at the situation from the reverse. As he points out you must think its the worst place to be as it is hard to defend myself and i cannot run when i am on the ground, Therefore i must learn to defend myself so i can hopefully exert enough control that i may escape/reverse the position or failing that i have a slim, small but real chance of finishing the fight from underneath.
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  #32  
Old 24-Jun-2009, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by forever young View Post
Hi, well dealing firstly with the issue of how bjj fares against multiple or armed assailants who are determined to cause you trauma. The answer is ..... It dont.

To clarify this position further styles/systems that claim they are adept at dealing with either of these situations are generally deluded. To look at it from a simple point of view, could you handle two or even three of YOURSELF?? What about Two or three who are say bigger and /or stronger than you?? what about two or three of your teacher?? you begin to see how realisically survival or at the very least avoiding serious injury in an altercation that involves any of those variables is going to depend more on luck than anything else.

To address the second issue of what your instructor told you, well from a self defence pov he is correct, but again you must look at the situation from the reverse. As he points out you must think its the worst place to be as it is hard to defend myself and i cannot run when i am on the ground, Therefore i must learn to defend myself so i can hopefully exert enough control that i may escape/reverse the position or failing that i have a slim, small but real chance of finishing the fight from underneath.
Yes, I rekon its important to summ up all possibilities in a real fight with big tough boneheads! Sorry if I seem dim-witted as I need to read more on BJJ, Heard lots about it, but don't know much? But have been reading many articles on martialarts.
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  #33  
Old 15-Aug-2009, 10:09 PM
Mirceone Mirceone is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhea View Post
......I've found in striking arts, they don't want to hit or hurt you. I've not yet found the reason about why they won't roll. Afraid of squashing you perhaps?.....
Rhea don't forget not all males are macho,and not all off us can easily shift to an aggressive mental state(unless it's a real threat) ,especialy when we have a woman or a child in our sight(simulating an enemy).To some like my self you may think our instincts backfire on us.

During my search for style that fits me I've been practicing in few clubs(first was a karate-isshinryu,then wing chun,then qwan ki do ,now I chose aikido)and in each one I had girls as sparring partners,and I also find it very hard to bring my self to hit those girls.Why?Instincts+my experiences with females always a pleasant one(to say the least)I could also add the family and society conditioning.

I hope you understand my point.However be carefull all safety measure have there limitations.Just because you are a woman dose not mean you can push any gent too much.You don't want to find your self facing a furious man.When in a frenzy state I can say from personal experience,no man ,including myself cares about anything,who the oponent is or the consequences.

I wish you well,and perseverence in your arts of choice.

PS: You can trash the machos as much as needed till they get there senses :P

Last edited by Mirceone; 15-Aug-2009 at 10:18 PM. Reason: bad spelling
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  #34  
Old 16-Aug-2009, 05:10 PM
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Mate, its training, if you cant put your ego aside and train with a female then you dont deserve to train.

Anyone who got into a uncontrolled frenzy training with anyone at any decent club would get kicked out of the session, do it more then once and it will most likely be for good.
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  #35  
Old 17-Aug-2009, 11:02 AM
smartial02 smartial02 is offline
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Nice to know that what you was valued of.. like me.. i noticed...

Watching those sexy instructors in kickboxing videos are very entertaining. Most people I know has one kept in a drawer in their rooms. I once thought it weird to even venture into kickboxing. It was a boring way of combining rhythm and exercise. Plus, I thought that the steps were too repetitious for my taste.
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  #36  
Old 18-Aug-2009, 09:15 PM
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The Decay of Meaning The Decay of Meaning is offline
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As a girl, do you feel it is strange if a guy invites you to spar? Should we rather let you invite us to spar? I've been a bit hesistant; I don't want the females there to think that I'm particularily interested in sparring with her because she is a girl (as I know some guys do).

I wish there were more girls doing BJJ. It's nice to have a mixed gender class.

In regards to groping and such, I have a very attractive and beautiful girl friend who joined a BJJ class, but she stopped shortly afterwards because there was a guy who always asked if she wanted to spar, and he became almost like a stalker.

Also, just recently I had a guy in side control and he touched my private parts. Don't ask me how he did it; I think he was going for a sweep. But I think stuff like this happens. Of course there will always be people who will take advantage of that situation and grope.
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Last edited by The Decay of Meaning; 18-Aug-2009 at 09:18 PM.
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  #37  
Old 19-Aug-2009, 11:07 AM
spidersfrommars spidersfrommars is offline
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It's just inevitable that BJJ will land you in a myriad of strange and awkward positions if you don't learn to 100% de-sexualize it then you're never really going to get anywhere. As for asking girls to spar surly thats better than the alternative, we should want them to feel like a part of the group not some awkward interloper. Just remember it's all OK so long as you don't make eye contact :P
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  #38  
Old 19-Aug-2009, 12:30 PM
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Dead_pool Dead_pool is offline
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Personally (as a bloke) rolling with a female, is the same as rolling with a male, awkward positions happen every now and again, but if the intent isnt there, it shouldnt be a problem. Inapproprate behavour from any gender should be avoided as much as possable, but its quite easy to see when its accidental and when its not.
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  #39  
Old 20-Aug-2009, 03:46 AM
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Lily Lily is offline
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I have to say reading these posts make me want to stab myself in the eye with a blunt fork.

Rolling involves both people. If an adult cannot set their boundaries, ask a trusted person in the class to help them do so as well as quickly get over the physicality of MA then they are going to have a tough time in the dojo (please don't bring up rape victims here or I'll stab both my eyes out).

Quote:
Decay of Meaning:
As a girl, do you feel it is strange if a guy invites you to spar? Should we rather let you invite us to spar?
Girl, are you serious? If you train regularly you pick everyone to spar. The lower grades, the higher grades, the tall ones, the short ones, the meek ones, the wild ones, the bald ones, the ones with mullets, the fat ones, the skinny ones you get the picture? Christ, if people think you 'fancy' them or are giving them some subtle invitation by asking to spar neither of you are training.

Time and time again I've seen girls stop training (despite the most supportive, grope-free, jerk-free environment) because they bring all sorts of hang ups, think that the dojo is a place for intrigue and flirtation, don't want to focus and essentially do not know how to come as a blank slate into the dojo without prejudices and preconceptions about people. I've heard many of my male training partners described as 'scary', 'silent', 'I think he doesn't like me' and I've had to defend them to girls who feel entitled to attention.

If you're not in the above categories or have grown out of them, more power to you. Otherwise, go home.
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  #40  
Old 23-Aug-2009, 12:40 AM
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niftymv niftymv is offline
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Awesome post. I think you have articulated very well how many of us ladies feel

Yes, some gyms and some guys really don't like or do not know how to handle women who come to train. I am in the process of "breaking in" a new gym, and going through the same painful processes of getting the most of the guys to see I am keen to train and I bring a set of skills to the mat. It is proving long and difficult, but I am optimistic that we will all get to a common understanding in a little more time.

Yes, hands/faces/arms/everything sometimes end up in awkward places sometimes, but as I was told by a very highly skilled BJJ practitioner, there are no boys and girls on the mat.. I am glad to say I have never had what I would consider an inappropraite moment on the mat. That would not be cool... and I would not like to recieve the repercussions from the trainer if it did happen.

This post s a credit to you.. keep training hard and surprising people who want to put you in a box and define your skills because you are a woman. Those who do this certainly learn a few hard lessons themselves, don't they

Keep up the good work!
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  #41  
Old 23-Aug-2009, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niftymv View Post

Yes, some gyms and some guys really don't like or do not know how to handle women who come to train.
I think it's usually more of a case of not exactly knowing how to handle things, rather than not wanting women to train. I know I was a bit uncomfortable the first time I partnered with a girl during a grappling drill. By the end though, the awkwardness had worn off, because we were both there to train.
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  #42  
Old 23-Aug-2009, 02:32 AM
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yeah, I think the majority of guys are like that. Please do no think I am bagging guys out! And I understand for a lot of blokes grappling/sparring girls must be uncomfortable at first.. and the awkwardness should wear off...

But, believe me.. this sometimes takes a while and it can be very frustrating (from both sides, I am sure..). I am still struggling with my new gym, even after a couple of months. Despite my hopes, some guys just want don't want to roll with the girls. I have not even been given a chance by some of them, and I have no doubt that I would give them a solid challenge, skill and strength wise. At the end of the day, it is a bad result for both me and them as it means that there are less people that I and they have been exposed to and trained with.

It's frustrating. Gyms are not solely the domain of men.. I can understand the initial discomfort, but rolling with people who are different to you, whether they are more experienced, less experienced, kids, older, male or female allows you to work of different things and better your skills.

Simple fact is some people do not want to be exposed to something different, like training with women. They may think it is beneath them and their skill level, or it may be due to something like they are worried they might hurt us. I don't have the answers.. All I can say is that it happens, and it's frustrating at times. But.. I have been lucky and have a stack of awesome male training partners!
Appreciate your feedback though. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on the above statement
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  #43  
Old 24-Aug-2009, 05:41 AM
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Morra Morra is offline
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Nice article...

Personally, and I know I am not alone--it sucks as a male having to grapple with a female. I do my best with that situation, but it is not ideal.

You can't win no matter what you do. If you beat her, you're a jerk because you beat a girl. If she beats you, you're a wuss because you got beaten--but you don't even know if you really got beaten because psychologically you don't go as hard as you usually do. You just don't...

I try to avoid rolling with women, it's just very self-conscious, and like a said, you can only lose even if you win. They have to be very technical, so that's what I try to learn from them. I much prefer it when there is more than one girl, and they can just wrestle together.
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  #44  
Old 24-Aug-2009, 08:26 AM
spidersfrommars spidersfrommars is offline
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I've honestly never felt bad about making a girl tap, if they were the type of "delicate flower" who couldn't deal with this sort of thing every now and again I figure they wouldn't be here in the first place. As for feeling like a wuss for getting tapped, dude get over it, if you ever feel that bad about getting tapped by another serious practitioner then you need to work on toning down your ego a bit more. Avoiding girls during rolling deprives them of variety amongst training partners and therefor decreases the overall quality of their training experience, remember part of being a good member of a club involves helping others learn as-well as yourself, don't let your insecurities get in the way of that.
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  #45  
Old 24-Aug-2009, 09:06 AM
Su lin Su lin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morra View Post
Nice article...

Personally, and I know I am not alone--it sucks as a male having to grapple with a female. I do my best with that situation, but it is not ideal.

You can't win no matter what you do. If you beat her, you're a jerk because you beat a girl. If she beats you, you're a wuss because you got beaten--but you don't even know if you really got beaten because psychologically you don't go as hard as you usually do. You just don't...

I try to avoid rolling with women, it's just very self-conscious, and like a said, you can only lose even if you win. They have to be very technical, so that's what I try to learn from them. I much prefer it when there is more than one girl, and they can just wrestle together.
You need to get over yourself! Why should I just wrestle with another girl, why shouldn't I get to roll with the men too?

As far as I am concerned when I enter the gym to train I am the same as everyone else- I train as hard, often harder, than most in there and I should have the opportunity to roll with everyone to bring my skills on. Yes I may not be as strong as all the men, but it's only like a weaker guy training with a stronger one.

If a woman shows guts enough to step up and train/roll with men then men should make the effort too and get over any misguided and outdated ideas of chivalry they have.
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