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  #31  
Old 20-Apr-2010, 06:47 AM
Commander Nitro Commander Nitro is offline
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Is it true that when you do Chi Sao you should agree with your partner what the "training" is to be (what the goals are or what they are working to improve).?

If this is the case, how can this kind of martial arts be applied in the real fight?
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  #32  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 03:12 AM
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Any training is good training. I feel the best benefit of this type of skill is that it heightens reflexes, useful in real life confrontations.
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  #33  
Old 08-Jun-2011, 10:34 PM
kinome79 kinome79 is offline
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First, I'd like to say that the statement "When one has reached a high level of proficiency in Chi Sao, the practice of simple drills and applications has almost no functionality." is in my option, not true. I can't imagine that any sifu would agree that all previous drills are useless after you're proficient in chi sao. Reverting back to your basic drills can always teach you something and help you refine technique.

Chi Sao is not about sparring. If your goal in chi sao is to hit the other person while avoiding being hit, then you are "playing" chi sao, which can be very bad for your kung fu. Chi Sao should be a co-operative drill, with no definitive winner or loser.
I believe its definitely about energy, learning to accept, recognize, and control the energy given to you by your partner, and developing an answer to that energy. It's definitely dynamic, interesting, and directly applicable to a real fight. Training how to redirect energy and hands to get them out of your way so you can move in for a strike can apply to any situation. Chi Sao is training, not sparring, and if you enter Chi Sao with an intent to "win" then you are robbing yourself, and your partner, of good chi sao training. Just sayin.
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  #34  
Old 24-Jun-2011, 07:19 PM
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In Fut Sao, the practice of Chi Sao, is treated and is equivalent to close quarter fighting.
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Of course they will not Chi Sao you as Chi Sao is a way of training and an attack on your life is another matter.
Do you feel that those two statements are contradictory? Is Chi Sao equivalent to close quarter fighting or not?

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Any training is good training.
Well said sir. So you feel that training to blink and throw your hands down to your waist when someone throws a punch at you is good training?
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Last edited by Yohan; 24-Jun-2011 at 07:23 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-Jul-2011, 06:07 AM
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I am knew but I always saw chi sao as a training exercise to get rid of the "thinking" action. It was a way to just go with the flow.
Thats just my point of view.
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  #36  
Old 27-Jul-2011, 02:42 PM
samlamb samlamb is offline
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I love running through tai chi guys. They may have root, but so should any good martial artist. Ving Tsun is direct and doesn't play around with the rolling or flowing bs. You can't borrow something unless it is given.
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  #37  
Old 30-Mar-2012, 04:29 PM
Monk-E-Boy Monk-E-Boy is offline
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Chi Sau's "purpose" is multi layered??? but also it should form part of a broader and more varied practice.

Some examples given below.

Chi Sau helps you to:

1) understand where your "gaps" are and when they appear to an opponent,
2) sense/"listen" to your opponent
3) understand where you hold tension and when you tense;
4) finding your centre and that of your opponent
5) "work" very close up
6) try out and apply your moves in a "safe and controlled" situation
7) move beyond the external senses whilst working with a partner
8) learn to relax when confronted by an opponent close quarters
9) learn subliminally through play (like a child) and body learning
10) engage in 2 person "energy work"

these are just some examples - there are more!

Chi Sau has it's limitations of course (it certainly doesn't teach you every principle but then surely you wouldn't expect it to) however it is also limited further by those playing Chi Sau. As you develop with it you will find the space in which you play expanding.
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  #38  
Old 04-Feb-2016, 11:43 AM
dbl0 dbl0 is offline
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I know this is an old thread now but just searching around as I am new here.

I really like Chi Sau and try to do some every training session, only problem is that everyone has a different way of doing it and you only do it as you are taught so there are always differences in styles or perceptions of it.

I see many benifits to doing it and when you become more advanced in it you are bascially close quarter sparing as you have punches, locks, throws, kicks etc all thrown in.

Some would believe that this is the ultimate goal in training, totally free flowing attacks with defence / counters.

Yes this is done lightly with no real force to cause harm but throw some GY or mass attacks in afterwards and you instantly see the ' street ' benefit of practicing this.
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  #39  
Old 08-Feb-2016, 10:01 AM
Tom bayley Tom bayley is offline
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The way I look at chi sau is that it trains two things.
  • 1 "listening" with the hands and body, learning to read your opponents balance and movement through touch.
  • 2 training specific technique in a structured way.

The greater the emphasis on listening the less structured the practice, the harder it is to learn technique, but closer to a real world application it becomes.

The more structured the technique the easier it is to learn but the further away it moves from a real world application.

Both forms of practice also suffer from the tendency to play at "winning the game" rather than concentrating on pulling the trigger to strike or grapple.

The way I attempt to get over this last problem is to put on some protective gear and practice hitting my partner hard off the bridge, while he does the same to me. A good head guard is necessary if you are throwing elbows with speed and good technique.Body armor is not necessary, but spending your week permanently bruised gets old in time.

Last edited by Tom bayley; 08-Feb-2016 at 10:04 AM.
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  #40  
Old 07-Oct-2016, 01:18 PM
erickjhonson erickjhonson is offline
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hi

The Wing Chun practitioner develops reflexes within the searching of unsecured defenses through use of sensitivity. Training through Chi Sao with a training partner, one practices the trapping of hands. When an opponent is "trapped", he or she becomes immobile.
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  #41  
Old 10-Nov-2016, 02:15 PM
Tom bayley Tom bayley is offline
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I get what you mean but immobile is the wrong word. it is virtually impossible to actually immobilize an opponent. Even a small amount of movement will allow an opponent to escape to move freely again.

What trapping does is temporarily limit an opponents movements creating an opening for the defender to counter attack.
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  #42  
Old 15-Apr-2017, 06:24 AM
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wonglongwingchu wonglongwingchu is offline
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Chi sao is an important part of the system, but not the sole piece. Free chi sao is kind of like BJJ rolling when you start on the ground. It's basically restricted sparring starting from an agreed upon distance (close and touching).

Last edited by Simon; 15-Apr-2017 at 06:54 AM.
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  #43  
Old 16-Apr-2017, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wonglongwingchu View Post
Free chi sao is kind of like BJJ rolling when you start on the ground. It's basically restricted sparring starting from an agreed upon distance (close and touching).
That's not really accurate. Chi sao has a lot more restriction than rolling. It's more something like Scottish backhold; an isolation of a specific range encountered due to a specific style of fighting which is used because of a specific context. Chi sao isolates a specific range and promotes a specific set of tactics because of the context of wing chun's development and therefore what it's optimized to do. But it's incredibly overvalued because it's the closest most chunners get to any kind of pressure, and it's often badly taught because basic mechanics and the tactics from the kuen kuit are either not taught or not understood, or both.
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  #44  
Old 16-Apr-2017, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWC Sifu Ben View Post
Chi sao has a lot more restriction than rolling. It's more something like Scottish backhold; an isolation of a specific range encountered due to a specific style of fighting which is used because of a specific context. Chi sao isolates a specific range and promotes a specific set of tactics because of the context of wing chun's development and therefore what it's optimized to do.
hmmm... so does rolling starting from the ground though. It is in a specific range and specific context. Rolling from the ground assumes that you and your opponent will end up on the ground, and chi sao simply assumes you will make contact with the other person in a close range. It also does promote a specific set of tactic (taking down the person and finishing on the ground. Just as wing chun is bridging and finishing in close range).

But I do agree rolling covers a bit more breadth.

Just my thoughts.

And yeah, most is badly taught, and lat sao should be practiced as well
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  #45  
Old 16-Apr-2017, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonglongwingchu View Post
hmmm... so does rolling starting from the ground though. It is in a specific range and specific context. Rolling from the ground assumes that you and your opponent will end up on the ground, and chi sao simply assumes you will make contact with the other person in a close range. It also does promote a specific set of tactic (taking down the person and finishing on the ground. Just as wing chun is bridging and finishing in close range).

But I do agree rolling covers a bit more breadth.

Just my thoughts.

And yeah, most is badly taught, and lat sao should be practiced as well
I can see your point. Although chi Sao continually goes back to a point of nutrality and sensetivity. I would say it's a lot closer to wrestling-style pummelling.

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