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  #46  
Old 12-Jun-2006, 05:26 AM
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EternalRage EternalRage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookey
Dear Ran,

Regarding the integrity of General Choi...

If you where to further investigate the context of his life and the period of his like in which this instance occured you will understand that the Choi Hong Hi was not more than a lad when this occurred.

I believe that service in the Japanese Military, years of imprisonment, near execution, and the numerous years he spent assisting in the resurrection of the Han Nation of Korea (Dae Han) as well as his further life changing experience during the war against communism all assisted in creating the General Choi that is reveared by many!

After all...who can say they never made an error in their life that for which they do not have remourse. I believe any man woman or child with a conscience will agree that they have remourse for something!

AND AGAIN I ASK WHY YOU PROMOTE THE NAME OH DO KWAN WHILE CONTINUING TO BASH ITS CREATOR?

Regarding those who question why no one will stand in defense of the now deceased General Choi...I would assume that it takes no great amount of warrior spirit to do so. I mean even a scared child has more Indomitable Warrior Spirit than those so weak as to cowardly attack the integrity of a great military leader who was one of the founders of a nation only after he has passed.

Prior to his death I didnt see these posts popping up from the blue...furthermore I dont see anyone running their mouths in front of Choi Jung Hwa, Rhee Ki Ha, or any of the others who have devoted their lives to carrying on the Legacy, Legend, and Dream of General Choi!

To General Choi:

Thank you for what you gave my family. In your death you stated that we no longer needed you. You stated that you had two names one granted by your family (Choi Hong Hi) and one blessed by Heaven (Taekwon-Do)...You continued to say that we no longer needed you because we are all Taekwon-Do!

For the Legacy you created and gave to my family I stand today as your prodigy. I will honor and fight to defend that which you gave to my family almost four decades ago.
(JUNG AHN BON KWAN, SEOUL KOREA DAE HAN TAEKWON-DO OH DO KWAN SABUM #520)

I AM TAEKWON-DO...TAEKWON!
There is a very big difference between loyalty and acceptance with no questions asked. A similar dispute comes up in the Moo Duk Kwan when questions are raised about the feasibility of GM Hwang Kee creating Tang Soo Do MDK from a couple of books and some kung fu training.

Asking questions about history and making sure that facts are represented is not dishonoring a great man and his legacy. It is obvious that Rag respects his TKD and also General Choi, but for him to blindly accept what anyone says is simply not following common sense, and I doubt the General would want people doing that anyway. It elevates the man to something closer to a deity that cannot be questioned, which is wrong.

A big part of the problem with Korean martial arts history are students blindly following the propaganda that was strewn about post occupation and filtered down through the generations, for nationalistic or marketing purposes. As practitioners and preservers of an art it befalls us to constantly reexamine where we have been and where we are going... that is heritage. And to blindly sacrifice that to elevate a good man's status to something of a godlike never-can-be-wrong martyr is counterproductive to said man's legacy.
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  #47  
Old 12-Jun-2006, 05:28 AM
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MadMonk108 MadMonk108 is offline
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Well said Rage.

There comes a time when one must "own" what has been given to you.

This is true heritage.
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  #48  
Old 12-Jun-2006, 05:33 AM
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EternalRage EternalRage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBatemanTKD
How is wanting something that is your own and not a foreign country's racism? How is not wanting something that reminds you of the dreadful Japanese occupation, and improving on what they brought to make it yours racism?
This is something that always mind boggles me because the Korean government pressured kwans to join together to create a new Korean martial art that had could contribute to a new Korean identity, but then just ended up keeping the same traditions as Japanese Karate, from the lining up and ranking in seniority with a belt system all the way to the uniforms, and on top of that just mixed up the Heian forms to make new forms and pretty much kept the basic movements (albeit not execution) the same.
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  #49  
Old 12-Jun-2006, 08:54 AM
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Ragnarok2005 Ragnarok2005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalRage
There is a very big difference between loyalty and acceptance with no questions asked. A similar dispute comes up in the Moo Duk Kwan when questions are raised about the feasibility of GM Hwang Kee creating Tang Soo Do MDK from a couple of books and some kung fu training.

Asking questions about history and making sure that facts are represented is not dishonoring a great man and his legacy. It is obvious that Rag respects his TKD and also General Choi, but for him to blindly accept what anyone says is simply not following common sense, and I doubt the General would want people doing that anyway. It elevates the man to something closer to a deity that cannot be questioned, which is wrong.

A big part of the problem with Korean martial arts history are students blindly following the propaganda that was strewn about post occupation and filtered down through the generations, for nationalistic or marketing purposes. As practitioners and preservers of an art it befalls us to constantly reexamine where we have been and where we are going... that is heritage. And to blindly sacrifice that to elevate a good man's status to something of a godlike never-can-be-wrong martyr is counterproductive to said man's legacy.
Thankyou my friend. I'd have posted the same thing myself... But I already have done. Twice on the forums and once in a PM to Spookey. [Spookey I have a *lot* of respect for you. In the context of this thread it hasn't actually shown through and for that I apologize.]

Quote:
and on top of that just mixed up the Heian forms to make new forms and pretty much kept the basic movements (albeit not execution) the same.
And thanks again for reinforcing my opinion.
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  #50  
Old 12-Jun-2006, 05:57 PM
KickChick KickChick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok2005
Maverick, maybe you should cool it before you either piss people or or get a referral.

Maverick needs to be reminded of MAP's Terms of Service regarding personal attacks directed towards fellow members before he gets Sin Binned

ooops too late
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  #51  
Old 13-Jun-2006, 05:36 AM
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DavidBatemanTKD DavidBatemanTKD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickZ
and davidbatemantkd, you can take your respect, turn it sideways and go ahead and insert it right where the sun don't shine. i don't give out my respect. people earn it. emotional windblowing doesn't work on me. and finally, don't ever lecture me. i've done more to preserve the true fighting spirit of tae kwon do than you'll ever know.
uh huh. I'm sure you have, with your last few posts showing an excellent example of courtesy, and self-control. Or do you not even know what those are? As for sticking it where the sun don't shine, sorry but I wouldn't want to take your day job. Talks cheap when you aren't face-to-face, as I just demonstrated how easy it is to sling insults to someone you don't know and will never meet. If you have a problem with what someone said or did, there is no need to insult them. All that shows is that you don't have the intellectual capability to discuss it with someone without muddying the waters with insults. And with that kind of attitude why would anyone WANT to earn your respect? The respect of an <removed> isn't that great to have, now is it? Have a nice day.

Last edited by neryo_tkd; 15-Jun-2006 at 07:52 AM. Reason: inappropriate language removed
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  #52  
Old 13-Jun-2006, 03:28 PM
TraditionalTKD TraditionalTKD is offline
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Can we not disagree with someone while still remaining civil about it? Why do these debates turn into juvenile name calling sessions? If you think someone is dead wrong about something, let them be dead wrong and move on.
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  #53  
Old 13-Jun-2006, 03:43 PM
TraditionalTKD TraditionalTKD is offline
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As I understand it, Gen. Choi was exiled from Korea for two reasons:
1. He was consistantly at odds with the political and Tae Kwon Do powers-that-be in Korea because he insisted on doing things his way. One newspaper article refered to him as the "Tae Kwon Do troublemaker".
2. He organized and led a trip to North Korea without the sanctioning of the South Korean government in the mid-sixties. I'd have to find that article but I know it's on the web somewhere. Despite how much Gen. Choi wanted to see the Koreas reconcile, Noth Korea was/is South Korea's enemy. He was/is considered a traitor by many in the South. Much like Benedict Arnold here.
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  #54  
Old 13-Jun-2006, 04:38 PM
KickChick KickChick is offline
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In response to David's post.

Please note that the member has been dealt with as he has violated our Terms of Service. Please do not stoop to the level of those that personally attack you as y ou will also find yourself being binned as well by replying in kind.

Thank you TraditionalTKD ... if only it was a perfect world
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  #55  
Old 14-Jun-2006, 02:48 PM
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MadMonk108 MadMonk108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickChick
Maverick needs to be reminded of MAP's Terms of Service regarding personal attacks directed towards fellow members before he gets Sin Binned

ooops too late
In Maverick's defense, he didn't personally insult anyone in this thread. He thought someone said something cheesy, and some ways, illogical, and called them on that. A few others said so as well. Some said that Maverick had disrespected someone who had devoted their entire life to Taekwondo. Mav's tactics were perhaps not the best chosen, but he made a statement regarding someone elses statement, and then defended his reasoning when others told him to show some respect. Again, not with much tact, but hey, I'm not his mom here to clean up his messes.

Maverick made some stupid claims in the other General Choi thread, however, he did so because he knew he was dealing with a troll who has been banned from here multiple times as well as Bullshido multiple times. Truthfully, aside from the TKD Messiah gag, which was taken too seriously by some, most of his posts contained very good points regarding Taekwondo's nature. Mav knew who he was discussing the subject with, someone who continues to raise the same issues, and the same threads again and again and again. And while we're sin binning people for TOS violations...I'm pretty sure calling someone an idiot isn't very nice.
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  #56  
Old 14-Jun-2006, 03:07 PM
KickChick KickChick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMonk108
And while we're sin binning people for TOS violations...I'm pretty sure calling someone an idiot isn't very nice.

Members can report a post and Topic Moderators will in turn review the reported offense. This has not been reported and neither has the "idiot" reported that he was offended. But thank you MM for this... next time use the report function.

As far as Maverick ... he will do his time in the Bin and will be let out. He was not binned for making stupid claims... had he been, there would be no room for him in the bin

Maverick just has to refine his tactics in calling posters on their beliefs
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  #57  
Old 14-Jun-2006, 03:19 PM
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MadMonk108 MadMonk108 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KickChick
Members can report a post and Topic Moderators will in turn review the reported offense.
Not something either of us are used to, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickChick
This has not been reported and neither has the "idiot" reported that he was offended.
I don't think he can until he gets out of the Bin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickChick
But thank you MM for this... next time use the report function.
Yes, ma'am. Understood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickChick
As far as Maverick ... he will do his time in the Bin and will be let out. He was not binned for making stupid claims... had he been, there would be no room for him in the bin
How long will that be, btw? He'd like to know.
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  #58  
Old 14-Jun-2006, 03:25 PM
KickChick KickChick is offline
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As long as he gave his real email when he registered, he has been informed via email


.... guess you two will have to "get used to it". You've been here long enough


... back to the original discussion please
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  #59  
Old 16-Jun-2006, 08:02 PM
Sedvan Sedvan is offline
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Because :

Kakakaka ^^ Korea Gogogogo Pk Pk Pk!!!11 I Am Korea
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  #60  
Old 22-Dec-2013, 06:39 AM
TKDstudent TKDstudent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TraditionalTKD View Post
As I understand it, Gen. Choi was exiled from Korea for two reasons:
1. He was consistantly at odds with the political and Tae Kwon Do powers-that-be in Korea because he insisted on doing things his way. One newspaper article refered to him as the "Tae Kwon Do troublemaker".
2. He organized and led a trip to North Korea without the sanctioning of the South Korean government in the mid-sixties. I'd have to find that article but I know it's on the web somewhere. Despite how much Gen. Choi wanted to see the Koreas reconcile, Noth Korea was/is South Korea's enemy. He was/is considered a traitor by many in the South. Much like Benedict Arnold here.
Gen. Choi fled to live a life in a self imposed exile because he was an outspoken critic of the military dictatorship in SK. He initially supported the coup as Gen. Park Chung Hee, his Army junior carried out the coup in the name of Lt. Gen. Chang, the ROK Army Chief of Staff. Actually Gen. Chang tried to get the U.S. Military to intervene. He was unsuccessful & once the USA was confident enough of Gen. Park's anti-communism stance & his willingness to deal with the USA as an ally, they supported him. Gen. Park never turned over the leadership to civilians & instead ruled with an iron hand for 18+ years until his own KCIA Director shot & killed him.
Gen. Park solidified his rule by getting rid of anyone in power or a position of influence. At times that was death, imprisonment, removal for office or in the case of some leading figures like Gen. Choi, they were sent abroad on various missions, like Ambassador to Malaysia, as Gen. Park consolidated his power. As Gen. Choi's power weakened over the years, he grew more frustrating as it impact his ability to boss around or push the civilian TKD leaders to follow him. This in turn led to Gen. Choi being more vocally critical of Gen. Park's increasingly dictatorial reign. The final straw came in 1972, the height of the turmoil, when Gen. Choi escaped to Canada. That was the year many political dissidents faced hardships, the constitution was suspended again & Gen. Park in essence declared himself president for life. At the same time, a powerful govt official & KCIA operative, Mikey Kim, who the world knows as Dr. Kim Un Yong was exerting more control & moving TKD in a different direction.

These are some of the reason why Gen. Choi escaped while he was still able. It should be noted that the SK dictatorship held his family hostage for an extended period of time!

Now the above part highlighted in bold is an often repeated falsehood!
Gen. Choi went to NK for the 1st time in 1979. It was a secret trip, but the KCIA may have found out about it. However he was already a Candian citizen & therefore SK was powerless to punish him legally, but they did look to continue to destroy his TKD & the ITF. Once Gen. Choi introduced TKD there in 1980, NOT the 1960s, he was labeled a traitor for his "anti-nationalist activities".

I am not sure where that thought came from about him going to NK in the 60s came from. It is totally incorrect & paints an inaccurate picture, which in turn allows a terrible slander to go unchecked! I imagine this was part of the vilification of a great Korean Patriot
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