Is it ok to create your own style??

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Kobudo, May 23, 2011.

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  1. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    We've all seen plenty of frauds being exposed for claiming their arts are something they are not.

    Just to show anyone stumbling onto MAP for the first time, that we are not (some of us at least, lol) an elitist group, who consider anything other than what we know to be garbage, I'd like to hear peoples views on the above question.

    My opinion, is that I don't think there is any problem in creating your own style, as long as you are honest about what it is and honest about your training.

    I think, if you make up teachers, secret meetings, claim to teach something you have no experience in, give people false sense of indestructibility, etc, then you deserve to crash and burn - But if you are honest about your style, I wish you well.

    I think you can take inspiration from arts that you haven't trained in for any length of time, for instance if you attended a seminar on Togakure Ryu, and took away some principals that you apply to your style, you can say that it has taken inspiration from Tokagure Ryu, but you can't claim to have trained in Togakure Ryu if you haven't!!! the same applies to BBT, GNT, TSD, etc....

    To me, honesty is the key.

    Historically this was the case, the different styles out there were developed by people, others took what they wanted but added a different flavor, or combined experience and a new style formed - But these are not frowned upon, because those who have done that in the past have verifyable lineages and transmission, and have not claimed to teach something they are not. (Those who have, have come under debate plenty of times) You can see that this person created their style from X style, but wanted to concentrate on a particular area, or saw weakness in their initial style so developed it in a way they were happy with.

    There is also the argument that in the past styles were tested in battle, but that doesn't really apply here. I have never fought in a 'battle' per say, but if I wanted to create my own style dealing with self defence and modern street fighting, I've had plenty of exposure, there's nothing to say that those who have created their own styles don't fit this category.
     
  2. embra

    embra Valued Member

    In days of old these styles developed out of necessity. Nowadays styles come out of the woodwork out of marketing, ego and internet.
     
  3. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I think everyone, particually cross trainers, create their own style of fighting but to them make the jump to calling it an art in it's own right is ego driven
     
  4. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Yes it's OK - I agree honesty is a good thing - that said, most people don't want honesty, they want to believe that their instructor is a god who can perform the impossible <SIGH>
     
  5. poryu

    poryu Valued Member

    As long as you admit what you have studied the ranks you really did get, dont invent a fake history, use fake photos, buy old densho and claim you inherited them or even buy blank densho and put a name on it etc etc

    then yeah why not do it. that is if thats what you want to do.

    For me there are plenty of styles inm existance now that we dont need any new ones. there is plenty of everything for everyone today.

    Just remember the moment someone lies it will be exposed and it will appear all over the web for all to laugh at
     
  6. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    Originally posted by embra - In days of old these styles developed out of necessity. Nowadays styles come out of the woodwork out of marketing, ego and internet.

    To some extent I agree, ego is a big reason, but what about those who beleive they can genuinely create a better style, or feel that they can pass on their own experiences that have now gone beyond their initial style;

    A bit simplified, but see below examples;

    Jigoro Kano - Studied Jujutsu, created Judo

    Bruce Lee - Studied Wing Chun, created Jeet Kune Do

    Morihei Ueshiba - Studied Daito Ryu, created Aikido

    Helio Gracie - Studied Jujutsu, created Brazilian Jiu Jitsu


    Can you honestly say that these arts developed out of necessity?

    But they don't get the same flack as someone else creating their own thing now, why not?? Is it because they found fame so must be legitimate??
     
  7. george rodger

    george rodger Valued Member

    As soon as you start teaching Martial Arts as self defence,and drawing upon your own personal experiences and ideas of relevance ,then it becomes "your own style",whether you like it or not.
    The problem is that "your own style"will.by definition,not be perfectly suited to your students.And therefore should probably not be handed down for further transmission .
    I think there are enough arts and styles upon which you can base your personal style without trying to create a dynasty.
     
  8. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member


    I don't disagree with what you've said George, and I've never felt the urge to create my own style for the reasons you've mentioned.

    But for the sake of this discussion, what if you have been training in a certain style, you have reached a good level of skill in that style, but while training you notice something amazing, completely new to the MA world, but it's not part of your style, and not something that would be accepted by your style.

    You continue to work on this, train, test, train, evaluate, until you are ready to share your finding with the world.

    Would this warrant you releasing it as your own style?? Or would you say that you should still call it by the style you were originally training in, even though similarities could be minute?
     
  9. bajie

    bajie Valued Member

    The main difference to me is that Kano took the functional parts of Ju Jitsu and compiled these into Judo, so though Judo was a new style, it also was a amalgamation of effective techniques that had been around for a very long time.

    Similary with Helio Gracie, he studied Judo (not Ju Jitsu) and enhanced the newaza aspect of Judo to a very high level.

    So both men took existing martial arts and combined and enchaned the techniques to to create something new. Whilst also forming their own distinct training methods.

    Where as now with a lot of made up martial arts, they just take existing techniques and call it a different name, without creating anything radically different, as Judo or BJJ was when they where invented.
     
  10. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member


    OK, so are you saying if you have actually made changes yourself, it's ok, but if you're going to teach an original style and just call it a new name it's not ok?

    If so, I'd agree with your point.

    A question though...

    What if you have someone, that has trained in a number of different Taijutsu styles (This could be transplanted with any style) they want to teach, and want to correct weaknesses in some of the styles with strengths from others, so combine the different styles.

    They decide to call what they are teaching John Smith Taijutsu, and are completley honest about what that means, their experience, etc, it's still taijutsu, just being called a different type of Taijutsu - Is this ok??
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  11. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I think it's more that they filled gaps that are no longer there. Bruce Lee developed a concept from what he had available to him at the time so I'm not even sure it should be classed as a style as such but that's probably another thread.
    So now everyone is at a stage where there are great arts out there to pick and choose from and mixing up a bit of this and a bit of that does not make it a style and following BL's principles it's all just JKD unless it's a sport where it's a ruleset.
    The only thing that might be missing and I know the Dog brothers train like this and there used to be a club local to me that trained in a similar manner, is everyday household objects and modern items used as weapons to circumvent law. History repeating itself.

    What I do find funny though is when a 'new' art is created in 21century western nations it always tens to have an eastern name.
     
  12. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Is taijutsu a pre-determined art with set moves or is it a principal within which are certain techniques?
     
  13. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    Definitely another thread I think, the Wing Chun guys will want to know exactly what gaps there were in Ip Man's Wing Chun...

    I accept and agree with the point of Jeet Kune Do being a concept - was just giving examples of where people have done something new without the criticism given others. before Jeet Kune Do though, there was Jun Fan Wing Chun, which was more along the lines of what we are discussing here.
     
  14. The Unholy

    The Unholy Banned Banned

    That is one side of it.

    On the other hand, should you make your own art? And if you do, should you expect to be treated with the same respect as Kano, Ueshiba, etc. All of them put in a lot of time and effort before they went their own way.

    The typical person I see making up their own art do so before they even make it to a teaching rank in another art. If you are talking about ninjutsu, most of the folks just go through a video learning course and get a black belt that way before setting up their own system.

    The problem then would not be that they are not being honest, but that they are expecting to be treated as teachers, elite teachers really, without putting in the time and effort that most of us would respect. The more they act like they deserve respect, the more people are likely to tell them they don't deserve it.
     
  15. Kobudo

    Kobudo Valued Member

    There are different styles, that have their own identities.

    the meaning is really using your body, so can be interpreted in different ways.

    If you look at Bujinkan and compare with Genbukan, you will see a common theme, but differences in interpretation.

    Taijutsu, is like an umbrella term, and there are then a number of styles of taijutsu that will fall under the overall term.

    If that makes sense??
     
  16. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    Not sure if this 'fits' but I am remembering my karate days, one of the requirements for 2 nd Dan iirc. Was to 'create' a technique.
    Seems a bit strange when I think on it, anyone heard of anything similar?

    F w I w, I think it's fine to create your own style, as long as your honest, espescially to your students!
     
  17. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I think Bruce Lee took a lot of criticism.
    It's easier with sport because you've made the rules. The two notable ones in the list judo & BJJ were at conception probably very simple ruleset that made a massive difference.

    The historical element is the fly in the ointment for my way of thinking. It's not my cup of tea but if someone wants to train in something historically accurate then it's name should be preserved.
    Personally just prefixing it with an instructors name or club name should be sufficient. Those that care then know and everyone else just gets on with it
     
  18. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I think JKD is a good example.
    If you read the "Tao of JKD" you start to realise that its more about bruce lee's investigation into the development of his personal style.
    JKD in general isn't a style but a method to develop personal style.

    The development of personal style is not a new art but its often advertised as such.

    *Helio Gracie studied Judo, except he studied from a guy who specialised in groundwork. The Gracies were smart cos they advertised themselves and their style of Judo correctly (e.g. creating the UFC). No one had really seen this kind of stuff before so they thought It was a new style.*
     
  19. bajie

    bajie Valued Member

    Well, not really, and the reason I say that is that both Kano and Gracie took existing arts and refined them to such a level as to create a new martial art, no martial art had been taught the way theirs had before, hence why both Judo and BJJ are popular around the world, as they are distinct martial arts that offer advantages that other martial arts do not.

    If you combined differerent styles of Taijutsu or Karate, it would still be Taijutsu or Karate, there would be nothing new there, just a mash up of different techniques given some silly name or the other.
     
  20. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    Not entirely true.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcJqqCSW9q0"]YouTube - ‪Dumog‬&rlm;[/ame]
     
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