Does sport really matter?

Again referencing Koyo, he mentioned a sambo grappler coming into his dojo and being really a great/interesting guy to work with. When a knife was thrown into the mix he completely reorganised what he did to make sure that he left nothing open to be cut/stabbed etc (possibly because he had been exposed to similar before?). Sport guys aren't necessarily stupid! ;' ) (This means I am joking eh!!)

Dog brothers, to a large degree FMA based, pressure test but don't appear to encourage sports type competition (from what I have observed). The whole movement seems to have come out of FMA or related guys questioning whether their stuff worked as well as they thought it did when they started interacting with different weapons artists. Again sparing with pressure to identify what works more than who would win. With a weapon I think, unless you are very lucky, everyone gets cut.

I don't doubt the difficulty/skill/hardness of grappling arts (having wrestled and been exposed to BJJ and Judo). No one would. It's just different when someone is armed. BJJ BB put a RNC on a guy on a bus in Rio de Janeiro and got shot in the head. Oddly he had been mugged twice before and not tried to resist. This time he thought he could get the better of the assailant.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/6/2...er-dies-robbery-rio-de-janeiro-grappling-news

I also think that sports training is probably the best for getting certain attributes and send young people who come to me to go and train in judo/bjj or play rugby or something similar.

Just one perspective.

LFD

 

in my experience, the limits with non-sport training are much greater when it comes to fighting skills. that's just me. my striking and grappling have markedly improved since boxing and bjj/judo.

 

Great plan, a true criminal mastermind at work

You lost me at fedoras

 

so this is interesting. what would we call this? sport or non-sport?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN4J6NCinBw

 

Pressure

It is sport too...But it also isn't because there is no winner

 

As far as I've read they consider it research.

From the DB site:

"The MAGIC WORDS: “No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be friends at the end of the day..."

- http://dogbrothers.com/the-gathering/

So it definitely doesn't seem to be a competition.

 

Reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz9C3Oc7Mj4

 

But it is competitive....Hence the dichotomy

 

Any time you spar there is an element of competition. That doesn't make it a sport.

 

Speaking of which....

https://youtu.be/Xse4oTJx8QA

Interesting insight into how a "sport" guy tooled a stick fighting specialist....In a stick fight

Plus it's Top Dog and he is always awesome

 

koyo is the guy we need right now in this thread talking sense into all of us. sorely missed.

 

I'd expect that outcome. If you have a guy who is practiced and confident about taking people down before they get a chance to strike him, then in a mano-a-mano competition style format I would expect a relatively high success rate against blunt weapons.

If he'd kept hold of the stick he probably would have done a lot worse. He adapted his environment to suit the context of his training by dropping the stick.

 

Crap how long have I been gone. What happened to Koyo?


A little more insight into my thought process on the matter. Once a month at my BJJ school we do a course called ECQC(shivworks) made by former cop Craig Douglas. Its essentially MMA for criminal assault prevention. We go over threat recognizing and management, pre-emptive striking, clinch fighting, wrestling for the weapons and a lot of fighting to unholster your own weapon. Standing, on the ground, and with multiple opponents. A big big part of training is studying and practicing competitive delivery systems for striking, clinch, and ground and the modifying our approach for the criminal assault prevention. the benefits of Boxing, wrestling, and Jiujitsu are not only preached but exemplified many times over throughout all the classes, and the one thing that remains consistent is how well the students who come from a "sport" background do in comparison to those that don't.

highlight video of one of the big meets. Kind of similar to the dog brothers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkS9ZbQIsV8&t=133s

So just based off of my experience its hard for me to even visualize training that isn't based off of hard competitive practice coming anywhere close to being realistic. I've had to use the Kimura to disarm a knife on the ground and spider guard to stop from being punched. All "sport" moves.

 

I'm a big long term fan of shivworks, from everything I've read and seen, his material drills and approach are very very good.

I imagine layering that ontop of a rounded striking/clinch/ground set of skills, bridges the legal and tactical differences between street and sport really well.

 

Watched a few of their videos. Looks great, you must be having a blast!

I think it makes sense that people doing the more rough n' tumble combat sports (not so much point fighting) are more likely to be used to physical pressure and the psychological dominance that goes with it. When it comes to simulation like this where strikes are limited for safety, I think submission grapplers will always have an advantage.

As for what is missing in combat sports; isn't that exactly what you're doing now?

 

You should see some of the absolute crap out out by some JKD groups....They teach exactly that!

 

In a self defence situationa winner is not clear cut from the start. One mistake could literally leave you dead/maimed. For example, you do have a fighting chance against that really good grappler, they could stumble, get a bad starting point, not ahve a weapon when you do etc. What someone on youtube said about it which i like is "self defence is the art of improv" because its who ever can improv the best wins, thats basically self defence. Factors like fitness, awareness, thinking under stress etc do help in the situation and improve the odds, but the only near sure fire way of winning is a preemptive strike as that usually ends it.
(I dont have any experience in this matter, this is just my perception of what it encomass)

I dont really perceive a difference between say boxing and a self defence class sticking you in those padded suits and having a close to no hold sbrawl only to stop if somone gets a stopping wound. They achiv the same goal just do it diffrent/for diffrent purposes. Which is to pressure test you, imporve your fitness and to train aggression.

I always thought sport was about having fun while getting/keepign ft and combat sport was endorsed a s atrainign aidand to encourage people to practice combat skills in their spare tiem and to get better/retain skills/retain fitness.

It could simply be put, somone who does say boing either wants to do it for money or for fun to keep/get fit. the onyl downs ide might be, they will be in thehabit of just punching and obeying rules in boxing if they cannnot switch it off in a self defence fight.

edit] Sport seems to be primarily FOR FUN, its a way to get/stay fit while having fun, which is a useful thing to have.However somone wants to get fit, as long as they have fun that improves their chances of staying with it etc.

Please tell me if this is valid or not and i i repeated anyones post here, also if you want more explaiing feel free to respond to me.