My weekly training, questions

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Morik, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Hi,

    So I recently started the below schedule. I have some questions about whether I should switch out some stuff.

    1 hour (not Brazilian) Jiu Jitsu class (good cardio & general workout): M, Tu, Th, Sa
    Other Jiu Jitsu activity ~45 min: Sa (after class, sometimes sparring, sometimes other stuff)

    1 hour ground-focused Jiu Jitsu class (different kind of cardio, some free rolling, mostly bjj & wrestling techniques, we do also learn some strikes from various ground positions): Every other Weds (class only runs once every 2 weeks).

    So rest days are Fri, Su, and every other Weds.

    My current goals:
    - Learn more Jiu Jitsu (cause its fun)
    - Lose weight (I'm ~300 lbs, but fairly athletic for my size). (I think this is mostly going to be based on what I eat; have been working on my diet.)
    - General health & cardiovascular ability, maintain strength/get stronger.

    I'm already pretty strong, but do enjoy weightlifting...

    Questions:
    - Would it be ok to also add a gym day (strength/explosive power focus) on Fridays or Sundays? (So down to alternating between 1 & 2 rest days per week instead of 2-3 per week.)
    - Would it be better to replace one of the Jiu Jitsu days with a strength day instead?
    - Do I even need a gym day?
    - I'm busy the other half of the Wednesdays, so can't fit anything in there

    What I don't want to happen is that I steadily lose weight and then also end up losing some strength since I never go to the gym. But maybe all the padwork & grappling at jiu jitsu will be enough to keep my muscles in shape?

    Some stats on me in case its relevant:
    Age: 34
    Weight: 285 (down from 315 earlier this year, have been working on good nutrition and have been steadily losing weight)
    No major health issues.
    I try for at least 7 hours of sleep, often get 7.5-8.5. Occasionally get more like 5.5-6, but I'm trying to really stop doing that as I do notice a big difference in my productivity at work on those days.
     
  2. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I don't think there is any such thing as keeping your muscles in shape. Your body will adabt/react to what you put it through... It's pretty specific.

    Grappling and padwork will get your body better at that. In my experience (my theoretical knowledge of S&C is quite low) you'll be developing your aerobic and anaerobic systems and muscular endurance predominantly (probably some power/explosive strength too).

    I've certainly added muscle to my frame from regular rolling/sparring and padwork but that was relative to having lost a huge amount of muscle mass through no longer lifting.

    If you were lifting seriously and are no longer doing so your strength will drop, but if you are sparring more your technique will be better...
     
  3. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So my prior schedule was:

    1 hour Jiu Jitsu: Tu, Th
    1 hour gym: Sa

    The gym time was tagging along with my wife who was training for a kettle bell certification, and Saturday happened to be her mobility day, so it was mostly functional mobility stuff. Not strength.

    Its been probably a year since I've done regular strength workouts.

    The additional classes I'm doing now opened up to me with my yellow belt.

    The gym time conflicts with the Saturday class at another location (sister school) under an instructor who I really like, which is why I am going to do that now. (Sister school too far from work for weekdays, but is about the same distance from my house as my usual dojo, so good for weekends.)
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So you're training twice a week?
     
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    It doesn't matter which MA style that you may train, if you are serious about your life time MA development, besides your MA training, you should include at least

    - 2 or 3 weight training days (1 hour each).
    - 2 or 3 heavy bag days (1 hour each).
    - 2 or 3 running/stretching days (1 and 1/2 hour each).
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  6. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Do you mean all 3 of those each week? So 6-9 hours of non-MA activity plus whatever MA activity? (So 10-13 training days every 7 day week? That sounds pretty packed...)

    E.g.,
    Mon: Weight training (1hr) + JJ (1 hr)
    Tues: Running (1hr) + JJ (1 hr)
    Weds: Weight training (1 hr) + Stretching (1/2 hr)
    Thurs: Heavy bag (1 hr) + JJ
    Fri: Running + heavy bag (1 hr)
    Sa: stretching (1/2 hr) + JJ (1.75 hr)
    Sun: Heavy bag (1 hr) + Weight Training (1 hr)

    For 2 days of weight training, 2 days of running/stretching, 2 days of heavy bag, and 4 days of JJ?

    That sounds like WAY too much activity.

    Even dropping 2 of the JJs it would still be a lot.

    Too big a time commitment for me, at least right now. I'm not trying to make a career out of this, just get in better shape and learn some fun stuff. (See goals in OP.)

    I do have a 150lb thai heavy bag at home that I beat up on occasionally (I have wraps & gloves for that). I could probably drill for an hour on it some nights, but I'm usually pretty beat from JJ.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  7. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I was prior to getting my yellow belt a couple weeks ago. Now I'm training 4-5 times a week (see OP for details).
    The schedule in that post you were responding to was prior to getting my yellow belt (the new classes I added when I got my belt are all for yellow belt & up).

    Or in maybe an easier to read format:

    Mon: JJ (1 hour)
    Tues: JJ (1 hour)
    Weds: BJJ/Wrestling (1 hour) | Rest (alternates every other week)
    Thur: JJ (1 hour)
    Fri: Rest
    Sat: JJ (1-1.75 hour)
    Sun: Rest

    Was asking if it would be too much to add a weight training (for strength, low reps high weight) on Fri or Sun.

    I do already do some stretching & cardio at the start of JJ (running in place, jumping jacks, burpees, mountain climbers, lunges, squats, various stretches, etc), so with 4-5 per week I'm getting some stretching & cardio & bodyweight exercise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    If you are serious in wrestling, you have to train weight and you won't have option. You can combine

    - weight training and heavy bag training as 2 hours and add another 1 hour MA training and make it 3 hours training (twice a week).
    - running, stretching as 1 and 1/2 hours and add another 1 and 1/2 MA training and make it 3 hours training (twice a week).

    So you only have to train 4 days per week and 3 hours each (12 hours weekly). That's about average training time that any serious MA person would like to spend.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  9. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'm not serious MA person--I don't want to give up 4+ hours each day (including travel & shower time), just the ~2 I already do on weekdays, plus the 3 on saturday (with travel) and potentially a weight day on Sunday.

    I'll leave the gym out for now and reassess in a few months.
     
  10. liero

    liero Valued Member

    You just went from 2 sessions and mobility per week to 4 sessions per week. That's a solid jump.

    You can let your body adapt to that. But it never hurts to do a bit of extra strength and conditioning work if your diet, sleep and stress levels are good. It will serve you well on the mat, prevent injuries, and likely give you some extra energy in the long run.

    I'm all about the gradual build up of ability and fitness over time, not jumping into hours and hours of training per week. It sounds like you did really well to drop so much weight, so keep up with what you're doing!
     
  11. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    Hard to say what you can or can't handle in terms of training frequency, because that'll depend on a lot of factors, such as how much you sleep on average around each session, how much and how well you eat, what you work in each training session, how hard you go when working that, how well you coordinate training sessions to minimize interference between them from the fatigue they cause, how much stress you have from outside of training, etc, but I do have a couple thoughts on the weights side of things:

    First of all, I'd recommend you keep the weight training minimalistic. If your MA keeps you fairly active AND you're losing weight (ie not necessarily eating specifically for optimal recovery), you'll want to avoid things that have little return for the effort you invest, so big lifts where you use your entire body are very high priority, while "smaller" lifts aimed at very specific things are very low priority. You can get away with 3-6 exercises: Squats and/or deadlifts, overhead presses and/or bench presses, and one or two big pulls (barbell rows, dumbbell rows, machine rows, underhand pulldowns, etc). If the martial arts work is vigorous enough and includes some rudimentary strength training, you probably get some measure of work on your smaller muscles already, so any additions you make there will just make it harder to recover while not necessarily adding any worthwhile training effect.

    Second thought is: If your wife is working with kettlebells, you could always start tagging along. KBs are not the best choice for maximal strength (barbells are, for the most part), but they are still very good tools, and a solid heavy piece of iron is a solid heavy piece of iron, regardless. They're also good for developing coordination between lower and upper body, as well as general mobility and stability, and they are very fun to throw around, with all the ballistic exercises you can do with them.

    Re: keeping muscle mass: muscle isn't as hard to maintain as it is to gain, so you can get away with minimal training there while you keep up the weight loss, as long as you get SOME stimulus, some of which you have from the MA, some of which you'll have from strength training (even bodyweight training), and you keep your protein intake high to spare muscle tissue during the weight cut, you should be good on that angle.
     
  12. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah one easy way to get in some weight training would be to have my wife just train me at home; she made her certification a little while ago and she is good with them, knows proper form, etc.

    My usual trainer doesn't train on Friday or Sundays, so if I wanted to train with someone other than my wife I could use her KB trainer (who trained her for a while leading up to the KB certifications, and who she still trains with a few times a week, in addition to training with our shared usual trainer).
    She says he does plenty of barbell stuff too, so I wouldn't be limited to KB.

    But yeah I'll let my body settle in to the increased # of JJ sessions first, and re-evaluate in a month or two.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  13. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So I've been doing more thinking...

    My goals remain the same: fitness/exercise mostly, but also enjoy martial stuff (learning it, doing it). Self defense isn't really a concern for me.

    BUT, if I can accomplish my first two goals (fitness, learn & do fun martial stuff) AND pick up self defense "for free", that would probably be better.

    So now I'm thinking instead of training Jiu Jitsu 4-5x per week, 1 hour sessions (with maybe a 45 min judo randori / striking spar session per week), I could instead:

    - Train boxing at work (super convenient, we import coaches from what as far as I can tell is a legit gym: http://peterwelchsgym.com/). This is only 1/week for 1 hour. Pretty sure they don't spar in this class. but we also get a discount at that boxing gym, and they have rings there, and I bet I could find people to spar with if I joined.

    - Train judo nearby (about as close as I currently train Jiu Jitsu: http://tohokujudo.org/). 1.75 hours per session, they meet each weeknight and occasionally on weekends.

    I'm guessing I'd get just as good a workout (or better) doing boxing/judo vs the Jiu Jitsu (we do sweat a ton in this class, everyone is dripping by 15 minutes in).

    I could do something like:
    Mon: 1 hr boxing (no spar)
    Tues: 2 hr judo
    Weds: rest / 2 hr judo (alternating weeks, I have a prior commitment every other Weds that I don't want to give up at this point)
    Thurs: boxing (if I joined that gym), could go for 2 hrs including 1hr conditioning or strength class (they run concurrently), and a 1 hr technique class (which I think does include sparring).
    Fri: 2hr judo

    If I wanted more exercise I could do heavy bag work at home (I have a 150lb thai bag). Or I could add a weight training day on the weekend. (The boxing gym offers 1 hr weight training classes specifically tailored to boxers.)

    I guess it will come down to if I enjoy boxing & judo as much... I'll get out there and try a class of each this month and see.

    I'm pretty sure they would pick me up some self defense basically "for free" along with the exercise (compared to the Jiu Jitsu, which is more along the lines of just exercise and some cool moves that I gain no experience in applying against a resisting opponent).

    Maybe not from the boxing class unless I join the gym (to spar), but from the Judo for sure (since I imagine a lot of the time is spent against resisting opponents).

    I wouldn't want to just exchange the Jiu Jitsu for Judo though--I enjoy striking too (thus the thought of picking up the convenient boxing class at work).


    Quick question on the Judo: Is it abnormal to require USJF membership in addition to the club dues? Looking at other judo clubs in the area they don't seem to require this. I take it as a positive sign that they encourage their club members to compete (I assume that is why they have this rule), just curious how normal this is?

    Another option would be Kickboxing or Muay Thai. There is another gym nearby (http://www.waikru.com/) which offers Muay Thai + BJJ.
    Another option would be Combat Sports Boston (http://www.combatsportsboston.com/) which is close to my work and offers Muay Thai + BJJ as well.

    But I think I'd enjoy judo more... I enjoy learning throws & joint locks more than I enjoy drilling ground passing, transitions, etc (though that can be fun too). I know BJJ also has a lot of joint locks, but I feel like maybe 25-33% of the material would be stuff I'm less interested in, and so motivation would be harder to maintain.

    Anyway not in a huge rush here, will check out a Judo, Boxing, and maybe a Muay Thai & a BJJ class and see how I like them.

    EDIT: Gave it some more thought. Maybe instead of a quick change like this I'll gradually ease in: keep going to my Jiu Jitsu class and just swap out one day, and take away a rest day:
    Monday: Judo (2 hr)
    Tues: Jiu Jitsu (1 hr)
    Weds: Rest | Jiu Jitsu (ground/BJJ day) (1 hr) (every other week)
    Thurs: Jiu Jitsu (1 hr)
    Fri: Judo (2 hr)
    Sat: Jiu Jitsu (2 hr)

    So train 5 days one week, train 6 days the next, repeat.
    I figure I can drop one Jiu Jitsu day each week if I'm too tired/need rest that week (so then 4 or 5 days trained, instead of 5 or 6).

    Striking is fun but I think I like grappling more, at least right now, thus this split.
    The judo will give me more realistic experience in applying throws/locks/chokes/etc than I get from JJ, and the JJ lets me keep some striking and I enjoy the classes.

    Will try that for a while and see if I want to swap other stuff out later.

    Regarding not hitting any weight training: am I more likely to injure myself doing Judo if I don't do any weight training?
    My wife's KB guy told her that his friend trains martial artists (trains as in personal trainer for weight lifting/etc) and generally has them doing 2 weight lifting days with 3 martial arts days to lower injury chance compared to more martial arts days instead of weights...

    I could try adding a strength day on Sat and maybe just not doing JJ that day (though that's my only chance to go to the other location, and I like the variety). Or just do both...
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016

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