Feel like I am doing the wrong type of training for karate

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by viccles, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Bit of background story before I start: Last year I was doing powerlifting as a hobby until I essentially ripped my insides apart. I'm all good now and have been training for the past 6 months doing 5/3/1 (albeit with lighter weights). I started back at karate in Nov last year after an 11 year break and now want to put more focus into that. I've posted in the other forums re hip/ankle strengthening etc but I'm worried my workout which is more compound focused (e.g., deadlift/squat/bench/OHP) isn't really giving me the explosiveness/strength for kumite/kata etc.
     
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    It'll serve you just fine, but if you want weight-training based explosive development, you can't go wrong with Olympic lifting, although it can be a bit of a handful to transition from powerlifting to it due to different squat and floor pull mechanics, and accumulated mobility restrictions. If you can find a coach, I definitely recommend it. Learning by yourself can give you a tiny headstart, but also ingrain a lot of bad habits unless you have the exact info that'll make you in particular do it correctly rather than misinterpret the cues.
     
  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Few things are important.

    - Keep your body relax.
    - Lifting power comes from the ground.
    - Coordinate your legs motion with your arms motion.
    - Apply exponential speed (don't apply constant speed).
    - Don't use maximum weight (maximum weight and maximum speed don't go together).

    The following clip may give you some idea.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-izEkvMwy4Y&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-izEkvMwy4Y&feature=youtu.be[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  4. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Thanks guys! Just wondering whether I'm better off with a plyometric program for more explosiveness?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The weight training can "enhance" your MA skill. But you still have to "develop" your MA skill first. Without MA skill, you are just a bodybuilder. The "technique" is the 50%. The "ability" is the other 50%.
     
  6. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Of course, I completely understand. I have only been training 8-9 months after a 10 year break so of course I have plenty of developing/improving to do but I want to make sure that I am doing the right type of training that can aid that as well.
     
  7. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    I'd be interested in hearing your opinion Fish on directly training in a more related style lifting versus the general strength development followed by conversion to sport specific strength.
     
  8. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Me too.
     
  9. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    Well, in that respect I mostly agree with YKW, strength is strength, applying it is another thing, and most well crafted lifting programs will consist in roughly the same things, and unless you're straight-up bodybuilding for hypertrophy, you already should have maximum acceleration in almost all lifts except accessories aimed at small stabilizer muscles, like rotator cuff work, and back extensions aimed at the transversospinalis rather than the erectors proper. I do however advocate doing heavy unilateral compounds such as one arm presses and cheat rows (although I'm biased because I absolutely love both those lifts, personally, and am half-decent at them too), as well as erring towards including lifts with scapular movement due to the role of scapular forces in standing movements (which is while I don't consider the bench press to have direct carryover to punching, for example, although it's by far the single best upper body pushing strength builder and thus vital to any complete program).

    Tl;dr: done properly, a full-body strength program is more than sufficient, but you can also throw in some heavy unilaterals and some weighted dips or landmine push presses or somesuch for a bit more direct carryover, and you still need to actually create transfer to the moves you do in your training.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  10. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    Also, completely biased and facetious comment: Oly lifting >>>>> all :p
     
  11. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Fish: I suppose my question was inspired by a video I saw on FB under the Kumite group which was of someone doing things like sprints, split jumps, medicine ball drops, push up jacks, standing medicine ball twists etc. I don't do any exercises like that.
     
  12. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

  13. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    You don't really need to, either, but if they're smartly integrated into a full training plan including actual strength training (such as what American Football players do, for example), they can be beneficial. If just randomly thrown in, it's a gamble that I would consider unnecessary.

    Re: Westside: Westside is originally and primarily a geared powerlifting method (ie, using squat suits, bench shirts, and such), and is tricky to use for raw (unequipped) lifters. Regarding that specific program, it's well-known, as far as I know, it "works" (caveats everywhere, as with everything involving whether something "works"), but I don't have a personal opinion on it other than, if you lack time, it's best to keep things as simple and basic as possible, which it most certainly does not (which does not mean it's a bad program, per se). Something like Stronglifts 5x5, Starting Strength, or Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 would likely be much better suited to your purposes (and can even be done in that precise order, milking each for as much as possible before passing to the other). First one is free, the other two are associated with eponymous books which are excellent and very much worth getting, but both also have plenty of free resources published on the net.
     
  14. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    When I was boxing I did specific training on being explosive with my punches. It involved no weights or bodyweight exercises. It did involve putting an emphasis on punching hard and fast, and learning to control my limbs and torso while expending that amount of effort. Compared to the normal person, and the majority of people in the gym, I got really fast and was hitting people hard enough in the body to make them take a timeout or go into defensive mode entirely.

    That's usually how training goes in anything. You want to get fast or explosive, practice what you want to be fast at by doing it fast (obviously once you have the technique down). Weight training is always something that applies indirectly to actually doing what you're weight training for. Same thing with calisthenic circuit training. It's all good to do and will assist, but it's not going to make you good at fighting nor is it going to make up lack of practicing the techniques hundreds of thousands of time trying to add speed and power into them.

    Sometimes things get so complicated here in the Health and Fitness section 0_0
     
  15. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    I am currently doing 5/3/1 and alternating the deadlift/squats bi-weekly as I can't handle 2 leg days a week with the karate...just leaves me too tight and fatigued. Just stick with it then?
     
  16. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    If you are newish to lifting or haven't done it for a while you really need to get the technique down pat on both squats and deadlifts, rather than switching every couple of weeks do both on the same day but use one to warm up for the other. So doubles in the squat up to an easy weight working on form and explosiveness followed by heavy deadlifts. Then reverse the next week so explosive deads for singles up to n easy weight then heavy squats,that way you can work on form on both lifts each work and also work on explosive power.

    Regarding DeFranco's Westside template it works but is an off season template he would never suggest it to someone in season is doing other sports training. And if you are doing martial arts training make no mistake you are basically in season all year round and need to adjust any training plan accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Runners run, swimmers swim, fighters fight
     
  18. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    Thank you for your feedback :) I'd say I'm "intermediate". I've been lifting for a few years but had my insides ripped out last year and then redone up (literally) in December so I am kind of restricted in terms of the weight I lift but at this stage I still feel like I'm being challenged. I think I might change the accessory program next cycle to something more of this format.
     
  19. viccles

    viccles Valued Member

    I understand what you are saying (I think). Maybe I was thrown by a comment on FB that squats don't help with karate. The style of karate I do involves a lot of explosive speed and I suppose I want to be doing everything in my power to be getting better at that including the gym training I do.
     
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Google Ross Enamait for other training that isn't weights (I don't use weights outside of Gadas and kettlebells myself)

    Squats will definitely help though
     

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