Let us define "Ninjutsu"

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by eclectic, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. eclectic

    eclectic New Member

    I would like to open a discussion concerning the definition of "ninjutsu" and what makes one's ninjutsu authentic. According to Zhoughari (2010), some 70-80 schools have existed which have reflected ninjutsu. This poses a problem for a serious student of "ninjutsu" for one must ask whether the content of these 70-80 schools comprises the WHOLE of what is ninjutsu, thereby making any one particular dojo lineage incomplete. I would also like to discuss the Bansenshukai. I admit I have not read through the other threads, but I am ancy to have a good discussion!
     
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note- Moved from "Ninjutsu Resources" to "Ninjutsu" forum.

    Welcome to MAP eclectic!
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Welcome to the forum m
    An :)
     
  4. eclectic

    eclectic New Member

    THank you. It is nice to be here.
     
  5. eclectic

    eclectic New Member

    Bansenshukai

    Has anyone read the Bansenshukai who would be interested in discussing the text?
     
  6. Fudo-shin

    Fudo-shin Valued Member

  7. BrendanCassidy

    BrendanCassidy Valued Member

    Ninjutsu

    Well I think if i write anything at all about Ninjutsu then I will be defining it necessarily..so I talk about one hand combat...smoke hand and the disappearance of the body..from going to one level to another..from Floor to ceiling..and from below ground to roof..this is a training in Ninjutsu necessarily..but the Ninjuitsu is like Juijitsu..in that you can define it all..either black or white..or maybe maroon which is the color of Jujijutsu.. for example the quality of an attack, be it smoke hand or fist..is indeed a certain quality noone the less..but fits into the higher scheme..or otherwise schema.. in orders of difficult which are unbound by the body..and bound by the body at the same time..thought one is lower..and lesser than the other one..which is Whole and complete..you should never pull against the grain of the universe..but go with the flow of it..and therein have you defined a new style of Ninjutsu..which can be adaptable to all levels of training necessarily..so we therefore find that writing anything about Ninjutsu, comes to define it as a martial art..and way of life and thinking..I thank you in japanese!

    Domo Arigatōgozaimashita
     
  8. RoninX

    RoninX Valued Member

    There's a very good chance that Ninjutsu might have been different things to different people and schools, just like Jujutsu is not the same exact thing for every Ryu-Ha. Karate is not the same thing for everyone. Wrestling is not the same thing for everyone.

    We know the basic definition of Ninjutsu. But trying to define everything Ninjutsu could be and everything Ninjutsu COULDN'T be, which, btw, is what Anthony Cummins does, is completely nonsensical. Maybe for one school Ninjutsu only involved espionage and stealth assassination. But maybe for another school it also involved a few weapons and a few hand-to-hand combat techniques. We don't know because we only have access to very few documents about Ninjutsu. To assume they tell us everything that can be told about Ninjutsu is just silly...and quite arrogant, to be honest.

    I honestly believe that it all comes down to whether or not you're willing to believe what your master tells you about the art.There isn't enough information on Ninjutsu to draw definitive conclusions. And there's absolutely ZERO guarantee that the few really old documents that do exist actually present real information. Today you can write books with false information. Back then you could do the same. People put too much weight on what's old, but they forget that back then people were already people. Liars weren't invented in the 21th century. You find a 500 yo document about Ninjutsu and you might think "wow, this is the truth!!!". Well. Who knows? Unsavoury phrase removed. You don't know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2016
  9. ninjedi

    ninjedi Valued Member

    It is kinda dumb when you really think about it. I mean, you never hear about anything called "Samuraijutsu".
     
  10. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    the fact one even has to ask this question points to bad marketing. or good, depending on your point of view.
     
  11. JibranK

    JibranK Valued Member

    Eh. In a ryu that includes ninjutsu, the other elements don't become 'ninjutsu' by association. The term is still limited to those elements that relate to espionage and so on.

    Anyway, I recommend that you and OP check out David Hall's excellent Encyclopedia of Japanese Martial Arts and check out the relevant entries. The further readings he suggests, both in English and Japanese, can be delved into if and when you're looking for more detail, though his entries are pretty thorough.
     
  12. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Eclectic posted

    Why are you asking this question when you wrote a book called "Ninjutsu, a commoner guide"?
     
  13. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Not necessarily. If you ask anyone what karate is, they'll probably say "They wear white pyjamas and go 'HIYAAAH!'" (with an accompanying karate-chop mime), all of which is true. That doesn't mean they would necessarily be able to define karate as opposed to any other MA, but public awareness of karate is pretty good.

    The same is probably true of ninjutsu. The public probably has an awareness of ninjutsu and would say something about black masks and throwing stars (again, which is true), so their marketing isn't bad. It's understanding of what defines something specifically as ninjutsu at a technical level which is lacking.
     
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    are we talking about popular culture or are we talking about people that are doing the art?

    i'm pretty sure if you asked a karateka what karate is, they would start with okinawa and itosu anko--aikido, m. ueshiba; judo, jigoro kano; etc.

    does eclectic study this art? ninjutsu?
     
  15. MissingNin

    MissingNin New Member

    Hello! you can find some introduction to ninjutsu on my blog here: Link removed.

    Ninjutsu is not (purely) a martial art (atleast not in the context we today take a martial art), so please do not compare it with JuJitsu, Karate or Aikido. Ninjutsu, if you take it from me in short, is a way of strategy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  16. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    MissingNin, welcome to MAP.

    We don't allow links back to personal sites, so please post your thoughts in a thread on this site.

    Thank you.
     
  17. MissingNin

    MissingNin New Member

    It was called bujutsu.
     
  18. MissingNin

    MissingNin New Member

    Oh sorry but I didn't have any intention to advertise my blog-site. I will be careful next time and I knew that most forums do not allow it but I had seen some posts linking to other sites and that's why I thought it won't be wrong. Also the explanation I had on the site is pretty long. Anyways, it doesn't matter anymore, so back to the topic. Will the senior members like to present their views into this post? It will be of great appreciation.
    Ganbatte
     
  19. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    I'm pretty sure the term ninjitsu is relatively modern, and simply describes a composite art comprising skills needed by the special forces of the day.

    When I went to school, ninjitsu literally meant art of invisibility, but as literal translations don't really work between Japanese and English, contextually it meant the art of stealth, comprising the art of hiding, disguise, and generally sneaking about, but that doesn't sound cool and won't attract many students (except maybe hormonal teenagers suffering unrequited love who want to do creepy things without he object of their desires knowing ).

    Now here's the thing. If your a special ops guy on a mission to gather intel or sabotage and weaken an enemy stronghold from within, there's a very real chance that someone might detect you, in which case you might have to fight. In a job where being attacked is a strong possibility, it pays to be able to fight. So the ninja spy/saboteur / sneaky git, would train in combat, both armed and unarmed, just like an SAS or US navy Seal might. Back in the day, the various styles didn't really have names. They were just combat systems developed by armies and aristocrats, taking influence from anything they saw that worked. That would be the same stuff that eventually went on to be labelled jujitsu nd karate and whatever else.

    Given what ninjitsu actually was, I find it amusing that there are schools that teach it to kids and office workers between 7pm and 9pm on Tuesdays. You don't really see SAS or Navy Seals schools promising people that with just a bit of spare time commitment, they'll make you an elite special ops service person.
     
  20. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    Modern day ninjutsu wouldn't just be the Ranger out in the mud, but also the person at the Pentagon looking at satellite photos, even the person at the Embassy or State Department that is feeding mis-information to another country's Ambassador, while operations are being secretly conducted in their own backyard, or an attack is imminent (see: Pearl Harbor)
     

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