Shaolin - The History

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Anth, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Even in the opening post by the TS....there are one helluva lot of inaccuracies. For instance, there is a body of information that reveals that the Han people were using h2h material long before the 5th Century CE when the Shaolin Temple was built. And the monks at the temple did not have to "discover" Buddhism since they were practitioners of the Contemplative form of that belief which would evolve into modern day CHAN Buddhism. And the idea of a military or martial tradition being handed-down through the complex of temples across China does not take into account the reported destruction of the temples or those periods when the practices of the monks devolved into nothing.

    But now we are back to discussing facts over fantasies, and its pretty apparent that most folks find this distasteful. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  2. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    There are better accounts of Bodhi man. Instead of him "actually" teaching "kung fu", he know is accrerdited for teaching a form of yogs exercises. Which, now some believe, were the foundations of Shaolin martial arts. On the other hand, there are a scant few scholars who simply state that the monks at Shaolin allowed or gave sanctuary to rebels and those rebels became monks, thus they were teaching martial arts inside the temple.

    China does not desire to rain on the parade of one of its icons
     
  3. SteveGTKF

    SteveGTKF Valued Member

    "Authentic" Shaolin Monks are there, they just aren't part of the tourist attraction available to visitors.
     
  4. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Doubt it.

    Shaolin itself is not/no longer used for actual Buddhist practices
     
  5. SteveGTKF

    SteveGTKF Valued Member

    That's one of the beauties of Martial Arts: you express it yourway(believe what you will) & I express it mine, my friend.
     
  6. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    That maybe the beauty and way to express, but it doesn't make ALL of it accurate
     
  7. SteveGTKF

    SteveGTKF Valued Member

    Remember that saying about "Before I started training a punch was a punch..."? Same thing here. "Research" on the net is not going to tell you if "authentic" Shaolin exists. By the way, what would you accept as "authentic Shaolin"?
     
  8. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Research goes a long way in determining authenticity

    Fake or reproduction Katanas and Bowie Knives doesn't make them authentic.

    I guess you haven't read the whole thread.

    I was once, into the belief of Shaolin. Its myths, legends and those who "appear" to be monks. I decided to "let go" and research

    I can't make people stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Thor, Zeus, Chi, etc.

    If ignorance is bliss, then there are a lot of "happy" people out there.



    P.S. No matter what I bring forth, those who desire to withstand their beliefs, will not change.
     
  9. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Thanks to Bruce W Sims

    Your Post #38 really brings this into a fine perspective.

    Best wishes to all



     
  10. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I don't dispute your thoughts at all, Steve. In fact I will concede that how a person chooses to believe is pivotal. My personal fears for the Martial Arts world is that it may slip, possibly is slipping, into little more than "Martial Theatre" or "martial-themed business".

    I will probably get roasted as an anachronist who is out of all touch with modern realities in which case I ask only a moment to don my Asbestos "union suit" before it happens. In the meantime let me point out that just within the pages of this thread alone we are seeing the hallmarks of such deterioration.

    Fact is that the Shaolin Temple---technically a system of temples across ancient China--- are no long centers of contemplative Buddhist practice and guidance, if they still exist at all.

    Fact is that almost noone still practices the training originally ascribed to the temple system so as to safe-guard their communities, families and livelihoods.

    Fact is that without appealing to the more pedestrian thinking of the average consumer these practices would probably disappear completely as they have occasionally in the past.

    I personally object to practices being represented as though they reflect some unaltered version of ancient traditions as there is ample evidence that this is simply not the case and that the. If people want to practice arcane movements, dress-up in exotic clothes and travel to distant lands I have no problems with that. Just don't tell that what is happening is anything other than theatrical events promoted to garner the tourist's dollars, 'kay?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  11. SteveGTKF

    SteveGTKF Valued Member

    Thanks, Bruce. I agree whole-heartedly that to "dress-up" something as what it isn't & try to pull it over peoples eyes, especially when people give so much of themselves to the Arts, is wrong. I still dont think we are talking about the same thing, though. The "face" that we see is exactly that, a face to show off to the world but beyond the skin there's some soul. I think we have to put this one in the "agree to disagree" box. haha. Thanks.
     
  12. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Fair enough..... many thanks. :cool:

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  13. Def clip

    Def clip New Member

    black male looking to be a monk

    im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk. is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays? if so, can anyone guide me, any help would be much appreciated. btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy. in COMPLETE control. i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge.
     
  14. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Yes, it is very possible. You may want to examine the matter of inter-relating Buddhist thought with your value system to make sure there is a goodness of fit. Being a monk is not exactly like what one sees in the media or even what one sees in the touring groups. Just a thought.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    If you are speaking of becoming a Shaolin Monk, then you may have issues with China and the Chinese culture.

    If you are speaking of becoming a Buddhist monk, you have a better chance
     
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter


    Why? What are your specific reasons and have you thought them through? What specifically attracts you?

    Absolutely...the question "why?" still applies though

    As in MAGIC ones? I think you will have a hard time reconciling that with being a monk.

    Being in tune with yourself is something you can ultimately develop on your own...if you need a "dose" to do this you have mastered nothing

    sure.............:rolleyes:

    i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge. [/QUOTE]

    Your cup will need to be emptied - I can tell that from just one post
     
  17. Tiger_Snake

    Tiger_Snake Valued Member

    I think you will be surprised about those shrooms...
     
  18. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Perhaps why the motivation to become a monk :confused:
     
  19. KunLong

    KunLong Valued Member

    << to say that not all Buddhist monks are required to be celibate... but it's a bit of a non-issue as being a gymnastic actor or martial artist who performs for tourists is, under any definition, not a monk and this is what many of those at the present day Shaolin site undeniably are.>>

    So then you are saying:
    Persons who live at the temple and cater to tourists while perhaps being Buddhists are not "true" shao lin monks or priests? That there are also students/disciples at the old temple who train without commercial or public involvement. These are considered valid (I think?)
    In all cases, you have postulated that because the old temple is open for tours, Shao lin has ceased to be a living, continuing line.
    I think you have thrown the baby out with the bath water - although I shy of the analogy, if every burned Franciscan monastery and murdered Franciscan meant the end of the order, it would have perished in Francis' lifetime.
    To put the spirit and life of shao lin in the building is exactly "tourist" thought. If that were so, shao lin alive and well as long as someone paints the building and repairs the roof.
    In every destruction and in every age shao lin have been driven out and have ventured out. The "diaspora" of shao lin monasticism has been going on for some time.
    In the last century, my master grew up in Taiwan not hunan and for 40 years he passed the way here in the US. There are plenty of others too. Some of them are well known.
    As to these associated with the hunan temple now? I am sure they know the difference and besides, even now in China shao lin is a restricted, monitored situation. They had better keep the true training in back because the chinese government since the last emperor has considered any shao lin priest a real threat. If China were to invade the us or perhaps Russia, both would squash free shao lin quickly, either reducing it to feckless public wushu dancing or eradicating it entirely on a grudge.
    Next, you will tell me a man disguised as a Kozak can not possibly be shao lin, when it may well be the only way someday that there is one?
    But, there do indeed remain shao lin on the line and may heaven and kinder fortune grant it always be so.
     
  20. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Quoted for stupidity.
     

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