A less-than-ideal introduction

I don't know, guys. I don't think you can have it both ways. I think Shooto (as always) makes a good point about formality and respect. I've never trained in the Philippines, but I've trained predominantly with Filipinos. That said, FMA in the West frequently relies on the images of knife fighting, commando fatigues, etc. to sell its image. So prospective students can hardly be blamed for buying it.

We all, at some point or another, walked through the doors of some dojo, kwoon, dojang, eskuela, salon, or boxing gym with a head full of odd notions and more enthusiasm than sense. It wasn't disrespect. It was immaturity. And I, for one, am glad that various people over the years afforded me some level of patience when I behaved like that. We're generally stupid before we aren't.

We can't, on the one hand, knowingly fill people's heads with images of modern warriors brandishing knives and sticks, then in the next breath condemn someone for arriving with that expectation.

Take away those considerations, and all you've identified is a young adult whose manners need work. I could throw my arm out right now and clothesline three of them. Not a big find.

 

The fact remains, if you enter something/ somewhere new, you do two things at once. Shut your mouth and open your eyes. Questions come later.

 

Well, sometimes. I can tell you that many, many martial arts schools here do NOT operate on that premise. I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a school just to watch and have the teacher stop teaching and walk over to engage me in conversation. At the expense of his own class. It's not an unrealistic expectation for students here. And I don't think they can be blamed for it, necessarily. That's the business side of it coming through.

 

Ah! So that explains a lot.

 

So you guys would probably think keppan (blood oath) a little extreme then?

 

Blood oaths were pretty common with Filipino combat communities throughout history. That's how the Spaniards got us to fight one another. Also, that is how the revolution against Spain got started.

 

That's nothing. I had to sign a year-long contract at my first eskrima school.

 

This. Almost.

Questions aren't so bad. In this day and age you have to allow people to ask the questions as the instructors have a business to run, after all. Questions in themselves are not a bad thing per se, it generally shows the person is thinking.

It's the strolling in 45 minutes late, what (to me) came across as more presumably bravado boasting/inquiring/semi-lecturing about "serious training" and then expecting to just be able to pick up a stick and be given a taster rather than get involved in the session. If he wanted a taster, he should have turned up to be on time and joined in.

But even average joe who has never set foot in a dojo/dojang/kwoon/whatever knows that a big part of all MA training is about discipline/respect/self control. It's not unreasonable to expect that some of the discipline comes from how you conduct yourself in terms of attitude, respect, clothing (etc). It's also not unreasonable to expect the new guy, as enthusiastic as they may be, to actually spend some time paying attention to the class itself rather than expecting to stroll in severely late, automatically dominate the instructor's time unfairly and then be given a "taster" without actually training.

This is true. It's even happened to me. When I went to check out a local kickboxing club even I was given a few minutes chatting with the guy taking the class about why they pivot their feet in particular ways, etc. That's perfectly reasonable and fair.

But even then, I spent pretty much the whole hour standing and watching quietly. I only spoke in class time when I was spoken to and made damn sure I arrived early to introduce myself and explain why I was there. Sure, in my baggy swim shorts, dodgy t-shirt with a scraggly goatee (I hadn't shaved) I probably looked like a douche canoe. But at least I tried to give the students the respect enough to let them train without interference as much as possible. I would have presumed some courtesy for the paying students who want to train should be expected.

 

I probably would have just walked away at this. There's nothing wrong with commitments to your training, but being expected to sign up for a full year in advance...no. Just no.

 

i do apreciate when someone is respectful of the dojo, most of the parents of my students do their best and some are really great about it (one or two are karateka themselves). but as long as someone does what i ask i'm very forgiving of an unknowing blunder.

this guy didnt act in an ideal manner, but its more than forgivable.

 

Yeah, fair enough. I guess I can be a tad on the judgemental side at times and I sure as hell haven't been a model student on a few occasions.

Ironically though, if the guy had apologised about turning up late and had just fallen in to the lesson with the instructors' permission, I probably would have been more forgiving.

 

It may just be me but if I'm going to be late for something I'll usually postpone going and make sure I'm on time next time. I hate being late.
Especially something like going to observe a martial arts class.
Arriving 45 minutes after the class has started is next to useless.
If you did that at my Karate class you'd have missed the hellishly hard interval training and conditioning we do and assume it was a pretty easy class.
You'd have a shock training the next session.
Asking questions is absolutely acceptable though...provided you don't disrupt the class to do so.
Every instructor should make time before and after a class to deal with questions (from anyone, not just visitors) but be all business and focused on the active students during class time IMHO.

 

I was joking. Suggesting the contract was more extreme than the blood oath.

I'm here all week.

 

an apology goes a very long way.

 

Damn it man! You know it's not a joke online unless you add a smiley face!!!

Sleep. I need more sleep

 

To be clear, I think the prospective student could have handled it better. I don't think he should be writing a "how to..." on approaching martial arts teachers. I'm simply saying that the business of martial arts instruction has set the stage for this sort of behaviour. I know some of the old-timers (myself included) would approach it more conservatively. But times have changed. Information on teachers and styles is far, far more readily available now. And, for better or worse, that changes the mindset of anyone seeking out instruction.

When I wanted to practice JKD and kali, I literally happened upon a discarded flyer for a class at a local community college. I made the 45-minute trek to the school. I waited furtively for people to show up. I introduced myself before class began, etc.

It was a process. Now, because information is so readily available, the perceived relationship between teacher and student often feels different. There's an implied closeness, I think, because you can "get to know" the teacher and material online ahead of time.

That's a bit of armchair psychology, mind you. I'm no expert.

 

When i started my TKD class, the man i spoke to asked me to turn up early to meet the instructor and introduce myself, Which is what i did.

I think the fellow in the OP's scenario should have held his tongue until acknowledged by the instructor taking the class.

Baza

 

I realize that many of you are based in areas where martial arts are predominately businesses. Every group I've ever associated with personally, however, has been non-profit - all the money we pay goes to rent. We're not interested in increasing our numbers just for the sake of it, and pretty much everyone who sticks around already has years of experience in other arts.

 

You hungry baby?