I need you guys to think back for me, wondering about my knee/leg pain from kicking

I had a lesson yesterday. My instructor wasn't happy with some of my shadow boxing... in that he wasn't happy with how I was putting things together, but leaving some things out. That's fine with me as I would rather learn the right way.

However, a little while after class I noticed that pain in my leg/knee again. Although my left leg kicks are not as good (since I'm not a southpaw and don't work on them as much because that's where the knee pain is mostly). Not real serious pain, and didn't feel like it was in the joint really. My right leg kicks are more to his liking. The hips are turning over much better and he is overall happy with them.

I started to think... is it just being on my toes and staying slightly bent at the knee that is working the thigh and causing the muscular pain around that area?

My question is, when you all started learning to kick properly, did you ever notice pain and cramping around that area? I'm really trying to figure out what is causing this issue. I'm not going to put myself into a situation where my knees wind up shot from this, so if it keeps up, I may have to tell him I want to work on hands and elbows only. That would be a real disappointment to me though, so I'm trying to work it out. Legs are sore right now actually.

I also have not been able to do my recumbent bike riding for more than 30 minutes at a time. I get finished and can't even walk right for about 2 or so minutes until it looses back up. I would say the bike might have caused it, but I took a good week off of that, and it really didn't start up until kicking the heavy bag.

 

where exactly is the pain, on which exact movements, and how are you training those movements when/before the pain appears?

 

That's the thing... none of it hurts while actually working... it's just afterward. Possibly a muscular thing since my legs are something I always neglected during weight training.

The pain is about 1 inch or less above the knee cap, also slightly on the inside of the leg near the knee cap at about the same distance away. I don't know if it's from pivots, from kicks (with or without the bag) or just keeping the knees bent and making the legs sore in a way I'm just not used to. Of course I rode for a very long time and it also works the top of the leg and near the knee, but it's not an iso type hold like having "soft knees" like you should have doing this sort of thing either.

 

I have pain like what you describe sometimes. Honestly it seems to hurt more when I am NOT training. I think sitting a lot makes it worse for me. I know that sounds weird.

One thing to thing about, it isn't necessarily the leg that is doing the kicking that has the knee that is stressed. I know if you don't pivot fully the supporting legs knee can get a hurting put on it.

 

weeeeeird. i'm guessing this is on your support leg, yes? obviously the default answer is to consult a qualified professional on the matter (someone who works with kicking and/or multidirectional running athletes such as footbal and rugby players, or of course sport fighters, will be most likely to be able to work with the stresses)

aside from that, well, the easy approach would be to try strengthening the affected area (http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Weaknesses.html#anchor13238820) to see if it is in fact a weakness issue, and see what happens.

 

The pain most definitely did not start until I began kicking the heavy bag. It was really bad one night... I had cramps in my legs and what felt like my knees all night. I just wonder if it was because I'm using the soft knees and perhaps that area is weak. I'll have to figure out a way to do some leg extension work at home. Maybe with one of the rubber band things.

 

I also should add that it really interrupts my training, as my legs sometimes are aching to the point I don't want to shadow box or anything else.

 

Do you pivot your support leg 180 degress in the kick?

If not try this and report back, this will less then inhibit the rotation of your hip in follow through and should have the desired effect on the heavy bag, Stopping mid pivot because of impact puts alot of strain on your knee by following through and pivoting 180 you increase the rotation,

Another suggestion is that your pivoting too late or not being on the ball of your foot whilst pivoting

 

Hmm... have you been to the doctor and had scans done? The closest thing I've had to something like this was when tore both my hamstring and the cartilage in my knee. Although yours sounds like it has more to do with the Quadriceps tendon (the tendon that connects your patella and quadriceps) based on location. It could be Petellar tendinitis (jumpers knee). I'm no doctor, but that's the first thing that pops to mind. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_tendinitis

 

I start the kick with the rear leg stepping 45 degrees and then start the movement, as I kick through I sort of do a little hop and then the foot is pointing almost behind me at the end and then of course the momentum just carries me through the rest of the kick. I don't like starting out turning my foot to much at first, it just seems like it would put more pressure on the knee.

 

No, I haven't been to my doctor yet. The pain hasn't been going on that long and if it's a muscular thing I wanted to give it time for the muscle to heal to see if that helps at all. I really think the shock of the bag might have started it though and now the pain is much less, but still enough that it bothers me.

The good news is I was able to ride last night for 15 minutes (and then my 1 year old wouldn't let me ride) but later I did another 35 minutes. That made me feel happy that I was able to do that and aside from the normal muscle soreness in the upper leg from that, there was no other pain

 

While you're trying to see if it recovers, it would be smart to not use that leg for anything involving impact and to reduce intensity on your bike. From what you say about riding the bike (you loosen up after 2-3 minutes) it sounds like is muscle related. You probably just strained something in the area or overworked it. It takes time for stuff like that to heal, and wailing away on a bag or doing high impact exercises like running don't help this kind of thing heal quicker.

You should also implement some light mobility work for that leg specifically before you bike and again after, as well as stretching all the muscles involved with moving that limb from the hip to your toes. If it doesn't start clearing up within two weeks doing that you should probably get it checked out.

 

Yeah, I don't plan on waiting to long to get it looked at, but man I've had so many x-rays in my lifetime I don't want to have to get more of them.

 

From what you describe it just sounds like you irked something, but I'm not Late for Dinner I've just been injured a lot and the similarities of what you're describing are in line with things I've done to myself that healed itself with proper care.

You have to remember you use your legs a lot during the day too. I've tweaked my shoulder and elbow from heavy bag work a couple of times and had to let it heal, but you don't notice stuff like that unless you either work in something like construction swinging a hammer or if you do the activity again. The same can't be said for your legs because you have to move around all day on them. Since you're constantly having to deal with it it'll probably seem more of a pressing matter (for obvious reasons) but the remedy for the problem would be the same (mobility work, stretching, and not engaging in exercise exaggerating the issue). It will also heal slower since it's constantly being used.

Unless you messed yourself up and need a knee replacement of course.

 

My shoulder already has major issues and does need surgery. I've decided from asking several people who have had it, that it might be better to wait. They are advancing their surgical abilities so fast that in 3 years it might be a whole lot easier. The flipside to that is that while I'm not "young" turning 36 soon... I'm in much better conditioning than I was than at 18. I would never have been able to sustain the same level of activity at that age. Sure it would have come easier with work, but I'm speaking of the level of work I do now vs. then as well.

 

I don't know the answer. Let's start with that. Qualified professional consultation and all that.

That said, here's an observation: I feel like you have a tendency to "go hard or go home." And that's not necessarily a good impulse here. Mind you, if your trainer leans in that direction as well, that can be hard to resist.

So it started when you started using the heavy bag. And I imagine that, when you're shadowboxing under your trainer's scrutiny, you're probably pouring it on. And now, you're contemplating doing kicking drills with resistance bands.

How about just practicing the form for a while without all the extra variables? I moved away from taekwondo after five years, but here's one thing that I was very grateful for: We spent a lot of time working on the basic mechanic of kicking. The foot placement, hip turnover, shoulder follow through, and return to position. We worked on it slowly and in keen detail. And, even though I ultimately ended up embracing a different approach to kicking, that fundamental mechanic never left me.

My advice would be to ease up a bit on 1) hammering the heavy bag, 2) throwing fast, flowing combinations in shadowboxing, or 3) using resistance bands. Just get the movement down. Those other variables just add another performance criterion that you then feel pressured to meet. You feel pressured to make the bag dance or to string together these seamless combinations. And, in trying to meet that criteria, you might be compromising structure.

Sometimes what ends up happening is "go hard and go to urgent care."

 

Yes indeed... been to urgent care many times ... not for this though lol.

 

Let's keep it that way.

 

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could you get off the topic of that please? I hardly ever take the stuff... and by the way, check how many medicines and supplements can cause muscle cramping and all of that other side effects listed. You are hardly contributing to my question and just bringing this in from another thread.

Also, when I take it, I take 2.5 mg at a time, not the 20 that many people say they are using.