Racism in the United States

What opportunity is denied them?

 

I don't see it as fundamentally different to people brought up in rough areas who see theft and drug dealing as their primary opportunity in a society that isn't interested in them. You don't care about society's rules because you perceive society as not caring about you.

Your opportunities are limited by the education of adults in your childhood, your accent and dialect, and the attitudes, culture and manner of social interaction.

The difference is many more generations of reinforcing this culture from within and without.

The KKK are not an ethnic group, but they are a part of the customs of an ethnic group. But, just to be clear, I'm not saying that all travellers are part of a distinct ethnic group, though some are.

 

I think it's common, as in this thread, that most people look at travellers as quaint. Both the objectors here has worked in area containing them and both work in different ways in law enformenr. We only see the bad and never the good

 

By the nature of your interaction, you would only see the bad.

I hope I haven't given the impression I think of Gypsies and travellers as "quaint". I wouldn't be so patronising.

 

This is prejudice. No other way to cut it.

Even if 99.9% of travellers and gypsies are involved in criminal activity, that 1 in 1000 is being discriminated against because of the culture they belong to.

 

I can live with that. I just avoid them

 

Yes it is

Let me ask you something; would you feel safe walking through South Central LA?

 

That's the internet all over. Most people should know what is wrong and right but taking about it then actually living with it is chalk & cheese

 

Never been there.

However, are you saying that all people who live in South Central LA are criminals?

I'm not talking from some do-gooder naivety, I'm talking from my experience with friends, acquaintances and interactions with gypsies and travellers. I'm not trying to say that their culture, in general, is benign to outsiders, all I'm trying to say is that judging someone on the actions of others in the same cultural group is discrimination. If you and Moi are fine with that then fair enough, nothing else to say about the matter.

 

Didn't understand that

 

I'd have to know where you work to give you an example of just how you could be effected.

 

I work from home.

Still not sure where you're going with this...

 

Then unless you live close to a camp you're never going to know (lucky bugger BTW, I'd love to work from home)

 

What do you do when 99.9% of the apple is rotten?

 

Doesn't really matter you haven't been there. Replace South Central LA with whatever dodgy neighborhood in your city and there you go. Point is that there's a percentage of people there involved in criminal activity significant enough that the area as a whole should be designed unsafe and avoided. That's just common sense. That doesn't equate making a sweeping generalization about ALL the people who live there.

 

I don't know greg, what would you do?

Enforced sterilisation? Internment camps?

There isn't any neighbourhood in my city that I haven't walked through at night.

Does that mean that you would be understanding of bars having "no blacks" signs on the door if they are on the border of a poor black neighbourhood?

 

Oh, where I grew up in Oxfordshire there were a number of sites dotted about.

My main memories of them were an arson attack on a caravan, an elderly traveller having an air rifle pellet lodged in his hand after a local shot him through his caravan window, and travellers not being served in pubs.

In fact, for kicks and giggles, google "traveller site arson attack". I unsuccessfully tried to find the one in the 80's I remember, but was pretty astounded at the number that came up!

 

The village I live in has only just narrowly avoided having a traveller camp sited here.
Something I consider a very narrow escape.
We have a few traveller sites around York and they cause no end of trouble. Local businesses being robbed, access paths being blocked and local residents intimidated, fights in the club's, bare knuckle fights, etc.
We have a parish magazine that when it prints "the evenings are getting longer so remember to keep your doors and windows locked" actually means "the travellers are camped nearby so bring in anything that isn't tied down".
It's not a culture I can find much to admire in to be honest.

 

Another memory of the local gypsies is how they were treated at school.

I wouldn't want to pursue an education if I was called a "dirty smelly gippo" every day and shunned by everyone. I'm not surprised they never lasted long.

 

So what's the answer?

The NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) strategy clearly hasn't worked out too well... [EDIT: Well, I suppose it's worked out okay for you, but it's hardly an effective national strategy.]