Brazilian jujitsu or Japanese jujitsu (for a police officer)

John can you provide examples of some of these atrocious BJJ schools and their unqualified instructors? If there are plenty of them then it should be pretty easy.

There are not a lot of atrocious BJJ schools around here because the people training in them will find out really quick when they go to roll with someone outside their school or when they go to compete and everyone in their school loses their matches badly.

That's the thing you can't hide skill on the mat. It becomes very apparent when you roll with someone.

 

Eh? Where did that come from?

 

I'm glad you were mystified by that. Because I thought I must have missed something rather obvious to have been surprised to hear it.

 

I believe the answer is right there in the Minneapolis lady's sig...

 

Ah. So it is. Though I'd always taken that as facetiousness and didn't make the connection. Good eye, David.

 

Well I aint from minneapolis either. ......

 

I like to think of it as an IQ test.

 

wuh? you're not a chick?

 

I'm not sure I passed.

 

You might of been the only one that did...... !

 

I was told that you're female. Is that inaccurate?

I was specifically referring to blue and below belts in BJJ teaching in many smaller communities where there are no higher-ranked instructors. This is a problem in the area of nearly 300k where I live, actually.

As blue belts they are probably good instructors in certain contexts, but training as an MMA fighter when you're a cop is a recipe for excessive force.

NYC police BJJ training on display:

1. Naked grandmother choking fiasco:
   http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/02/3467044/nypd-naked-woman/
   NYPD BRUTALLY
   Drags NAKED Grandmother From Brooklyn Apartment..Leaves Her TOPLESS In Hallway! - YouTube
2. Pregnant woman choked will sidewalk grilling fiasco:
   http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/07/28/nypd-officer-accused-of-placing-pregnant-woman-in-choke-hold/
   
3. Asthmatic father choked to death after helping break up a fight for allegedly “selling single cigarettes”:
   http://www.storyleak.com/video-new-york-man-who-broke-up-street-fight-choked-to-death-by-police/
   http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/20/justice/ny-chokehold-death/
   
4. Police choke man to death in subway while punching him in the face repeatedly:
   http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/07/24/3463847/police-brutality-ronald-john/

That’s just a single US city and that’s all very recent news. Hum?

1. And let’s not forget the prestigious Lloyd Irvin BJJ School of Rape in Camp Spring, Maryland shall we. Sounds like a great place to train.
   http://www.mmamania.com/2013/1/9/38...e-matthew-maldonado-nicholas-schultz-arrested

No school you trained at taught you those [group handcuffing/weapon retention drills] things. CDT taught me them, actually. I know several other RBSD arts teach them. Had I asked him to, Brandon would have taught me a different variation of those same skills, just like he did to many Green Berets, DELTA operators, and Rangers.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1FJB11E7ro"]Bourne for Sommerfeld.mov - YouTube[/ame]

 

Ps do the NYC police even train BJJ?

 

False dichotomy - they did this because they were a holes, not because they trained in a grappling system. In fact i will go one further ans suggest they were NOT trained in a grappling system but a standard restaining hold called the LVNR - done in isloation you lack the nuances peculiar to grappling and teh ability to apply teh techniques "clean". In fact such instances are a direct argumebnt FOR improving the H2H component by putting in such training

Want to do a comparative list of TMA schools that have abuse scandals? Because the occurences are rife there too and in greater number. Here let's try everyone's favourite "family" art

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=karate+instructor+arrested

It's a **** weak argument

So what ART did they draw them from? Oh that's right THEY DIDN'T BECAUSE NO ART TEACHES IT AND THEY ARE INSERTED INTO HYBRID CURRICULUMS WHICH IS EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS MAKING - the stability of the platform for inserting those tactics into is the issue. All arts can have it as a "bolt on" - some have a better platform and BJJ/Wrestling happen to be two of those that offer the strongest by virtue of the raison d'etre of the systems

 

Nope - at least not at a corporate level. See my reply above

 

CTD examples:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEWKtGGzksg"]Modern Samurai C.D.T. International video 2013 06 22 16 04 29 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOW-d54CKaE"]C.D.T. 2013 - YouTube[/ame]

Sorry, no group stuff on the YouTubes I could find. I guess you'll just need to take my word that I was trained in group handcuffing and weapons retention drilling through that system. Wah wah wah.

Oh look, Krav Maga handcuffing too:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofztav3YUds"]Krav Maga NYC - Police Tactics, handcuffing, search & leading suspects by Gabi Noah - YouTube[/ame]

(I'm sure no KM instructor has ever taught group stuff over there in Israel to their military.)

Ontario BBJ/MT school teaching the subject:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zLKqQ6FKc"]HANDCUFFING:GROUNDING AND LIFTING A SUSPECT - YouTube[/ame]

Mexican CPO instructor:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvoslnux9UY"]Tactical training sample of executive protection & police instructor - YouTube[/ame]

Etc., etc., etc....

 

All of which exactly proves the point I was making - it is a "bolt on"

 

And to completely prove my point BJJ cuffing

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyRT0ggoN_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyRT0ggoN_0[/ame]

And Saulo!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pce-N3g_W7Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pce-N3g_W7Q[/ame]

And the Gracies have an entire package for LEO's for tyr's sake!

http://www.gracieacademy.com/gst.asp

So your "they don't teach it" argument is not only moot it is flat out wrong

 

Let us also not lose sight of the fact that a Pinto, an Edsel, a Volkswagen and a Rolls Royce will all get you from A-B....but they are not equal journeys

The debtae is not are these the ONLY arts that can be used - also bear in mind I technically don't do either in my 2nd dan (technically a 3rd actually but I don't claim it) grade is IN JJJ

 

I'm not breaking ToS by disclosing private conversations publicly. Really, it doesn't matter anyway now does it? Also, you forgot to answer my questions about your experiences applying your training.

No, they did it because they were trained badly in grappling systems. And many of them are sociopaths. It's disingenuous to state they weren't trained in any grappling system.

Well, CTD draws from FMA but it's so far removed from traditional FMA it's really just it's own art.

I don't have to. I'm just advocating against the use of MMA style tactics in LEO training as the go-to recommendation around here, largely by people who've never handcuffed someone. Yes, they weren't trained sufficiently, but you know as well as I do that it takes a lot longer to learn ground grappling versus some stand-up work or versus a quality RBSD system. Many LEOs can't commit the unpaid hours necessary to become ground grappling titans.

Also, there is some goalpost shifting happening here. I never made the arguement that TMA > BJJ. I gave my opinion on the OPs question, that is all.

I agree, but don't worry, you'll get better at this.

Personally, I think the OP should visit a lot of schools and report back. I also think he should find a quality RBSD school that teaches handcuffing and weapon retention. But that wasn't the question that was asked, so that wasn't the answer that I gave.