Stuck in a Rut

Yeah, that's similar advice to what LemonSloth gave me, saying that to improve my ground sparring I should take up something that specialises in it like BJJ. So I guess taking up something like boxing or kick-boxing would be a good way to improve my hand to hand sparring too. Jumping in at the deep end as it were, so I get desensitised to being in a spar and taking hits so I can concentrate on looking for an opening and where to aim my attacks. I guess it'd force my stamina levels, speed and reaction times to improve at the same time.

The only problem I have then is to find a class that is in my free time, and scrounge up the funds to go to them. lol

I like to think of myself as a placid person, but I do have a lot of anger under the surface. I've been able to control it more since I started martial arts, but it's still there I guess.

I'd agree with you there, sparring does seem to come across as more of a brawl sometimes rather than training. To be honest I'd prefer some light contact sparring to try out new moves and new styles of fighting, but we don't really do that. Pretty much all of my spars now are full contact, so you tend to worry about trying something new, because you might end up getting clobbered after not realising you dropped your defence somewhere. The only time we go light or half speed is when we have newbies join up and for their first few months they need to get used to it before moving onto something harsher.

 

It's been said an infinite amount of times, it's not the style but the pressure testing that style incorporates that makes the difference. I had been training Aikido for 7 years (must be a 7 year itch thing) but started to get bored in training and felt like pushing myself. So I started BJJ and it is a massive culture and ego shock but it is honest and you need to face up to that if you want to get over your rut. I'm not saying you must do BJJ, but you do need to pressure test your training. I just find BJJ lets you go 100% in a relatively safe environment (I'm too old to take headshots!). And I'm a big fella with dodgy knees as well.

I do plan to go back to Aikido, I'm still mates with them all and my plan is to push for some form of randori every single class, to add some form of pressure testing there as I think that would help the students and make it more fun again for my good self.

 

Julian Jackson came pretty close when he laid one on Bomber Graham.

 

Yeah, nobody has died as a direct result of a body shot as far as I'm aware. Perhaps breaking the ribs can puncture a lung or other vital organ but to "shatter rib cage and everything inside it" is absolute hokey.

Definitely try some kickboxing, and tell them about this technique, and ask to perform it on them. Don't be surprised if they don't keel over.

 

Yeah, it's been suggested a few times. I'm thinking an outside perspective from another martial art might be a good idea. This style of Hapkido is the only one I've trained in, so it's kind of easy to get blinders on. I doubt I'll stop training in it because I've made good friends there, but I think I'll have to take the plunge and jump into another martial art at the same time.

 

it's really interesting....

so many of the things you've said rick are so close to the issues that i had, even down to not wanting to leave an art (or a dojang) because i had friends there. i stayed in hapkido too long knowing that i'd have to change. but my friends and the upcoming black belt kept me there, amongst other reasons.

we even used to be told that our dojang incorporated other arts, like kyokushin, tkd, bjj, hanpul (which is a form of hapkido), etc. etc.

i spent a lot of time trying to spar in hapkido too. and while i didn't have your problems per se, i felt that i couldn't spar with 100% effort. it's not just the first move, and the counter, or even the counter to the counter. it's keeping going and seeing all the moves and flowing with your partner. you can liken good sparring to a game of chess.

oh yeah, we all used to believe what our dojang owner told us about dangerous techniques too. all that was thrown out the window once i started boxing.

 

Rick this isn't "beat up Rick day" no pun intended.

Seriously though I tend to agree with the other guys here. It's one thing to have the "idea" of that Sukh Dao punch and it's another to actually be able to do it.

I find it highly unlikely that someone would be able to "shatter ribs, and everything inside of them" with a punch on a resisting opponent.

I also think you may find a lot of those techniques besides being "illegal" are probably low percentage techniques and have little chance of working again on a resisting opponent.

That's not necessarily a reason not to learn or train them; however I think its necessary to approach them honestly.

 

Rick, as Hannibal said this is rubbish sorry, I train in Kyokushin which is known for bare knuckle punches to the body in competition so if this mythical punch existed I would expect a bigger butchers bill at the end of a competition especially from the openweight (80kg +) division.

Stick to training the high percentage techniques that can actually be trained and tested properly.

 

Giovanni I had a very similar experience and I'm willing to bet many others have too.

I took other people's opinions for my own and I let them influence me even where looking back I knew better.

By the way it was my own fault and no one else.

 

oh absolutely agree.

 

+1

 

Okay Rick, I am a Hapkido instructor, and I hate to break it to you, but you actually should be able to do the vast majority of Hapkido techniques against fully resisting opponents in practice. If you can't do this, then you have to go back and make sure you really understand the anatomy and technical aspects of the techniques.

For starters, with standing joint-locking techniques, you should be able to change the angle to make them unbalancing/throwing techniques rather than joint-destructions on the fly.

Also, authentic Hapkido's punches and kicks are more similar to boxing and kickboxing than to most other TMA and there is no reason whatsoever that they cannot be practiced with the same intensity. Moreover, sweeps and throws can be practiced at full resistance as well.

While it is true that small joint lock techniques are illegal in completion, you probably have close to zero chance of pulling them off unless you practice all the other stuff at full resistance.

 

Rick I wouldn't be too worried about joining a group where you don't know anyone. Most of the BJJ schools that I've been too have been very welcoming and if you go in with a good attitude I think you will have a positive experience.

The real thing here is that you will have to accept that you will "lose" and that pretty much everyone at that school is going to be a lot better than you at the groundwork (and they will be).

But that is why you are there to learn. So swallow your pride and listen to your coaches there and I think you are going to find you are going have a lot of fun.

 

Hey guys thanks for your advice, I'm thinking I'll search out some new classes in BJJ and maybe Kickboxing to advance my style. I think this will help me become a more well rounded martial artist and should assist with my mental block when it comes to sparring. Now I just need to find the money and the time to devote to those new styles and incorporate them into what I know.

I'd especially like to thank Simon, your sparring videos were very interesting and I think I will incorporate it into my training.

To those who criticised me for talking about my style, I'm rather disappointed at how rudely a few went about doing it. Rather than discussing it with a degree of scepticism there was outright denouncement of my technique, which I found to be rather rude. I thought all martial artists had some degree of respect for each other and took it as fact that they had not and will never learn everything there is to know, that there may be some techniques out there they haven't seen yet. But c'est la vie, I for one will try to give people the benefit of the doubt before trying to crucify them for discussing their technique with me.

 

Best of luck man.

We're not (I'm not anyway) denouncing any style here. We are dispelling myths such as "I can make a mans heart explode". Hapkido is a cool style and would never dream of bashing it. Just take any claims such as that with a healthy portion of salt.

 

Thank you.

To clarify, I wasn't implying that I know a secret death punch that can make a man's heart explode with a tap. It's a punch that puts the full force of the body behind it, which can easily rupture internal organs, shatter ribs, and possibly cause punctured lungs and damaging the diaphragm, as any full force punch can. This punch however is specifically aimed at causing this kind of damage, which is why we can't use it in sparring.

A lot of the techniques we have learnt are by design intended to cripple an opponent ie front kicks to the knee, reversing elbows, snapping wrists, shots aimed at the throat, kidneys, back of the head etc. many of which are banned in other martial arts because of the danger. If we went 100% at each other, one of these shots would almost definitely come out purely from muscle memory and reactions.

And so we do full contact sparring but only mime these crippling shots to show that it could have happened. It would be reckless to do otherwise, plus I doubt our insurance would cover it. lol

 

There is no body shot that can intentionally kill someone. There is not punch to the body that cannot be taught and practised at pretty much full speed.

Also, all those techniques you just mentioned are legal, with the exception to the back of the head, in MMA.

 

(a) It isn't easy - at all

Bas ruptured a spleen in the video, but has never done it in real life. He has put plenty of people down with it and manages to spar it hard just fine. And no one - NO ONE - in your school or style will hit like Bas

(b) I train with sticks, knives, headbutts, eye gouges, bites, throat shots, eye shots and other such wholesome techniques all the time without any undue difficulty. Anytime the phrase "too deadly to spar" is trotted out it tells you one of two things

i) They haven't tried it or created an environment where it can be drilled

or

ii) They can't fight

As your school spars I will lean toward the former rather than the latter

"Sparring" does not have to be 100% balls to the wall every time either. It is a drill after all and can be tweaked accordingly.

c) It isn't rude to point out mths and misconceptions. The manner may be brusque, but if the message is true (which it is) the delivery of said message is secondary. The replies on this thread have not even been close to being rude...and as the resident "angriest MAP member" I would know.

Think of this as a chat over a pint in the pub rather than a zen temple...such trappings are entirely arbitrary anyway - beer is far more pragamtic!

 

Best of luck with your search! Hope it works out well for you

To be fair it's not the style people are picking on (from what little I've seen, Hapkido looks pretty cool actually) but the assumption about what the technique will do and how effective it is, especially if you're not actually trying it or practising it in a somewhat controlled context. We've all seen silly numbers of MAists who have talked in all seriously about "no touch KOs", "death touch techniques" and "street lethal" shenanigans on MAP at different points and without fail, every single technique mentioned turns out to be utter hogwash when put under actual pressure.

Perfect example, George Dillman:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsSzSflkns8"]George Dillman - National Geographic Channel - YouTube[/ame]

 

Rick I used to believe some of that stuff too and then I got out of my own small pond and trained with some other people and quickly found out it wasn't.