Hello. I have been training TKD for a few years now and would like to start taking some SD training (realising these are essentially two separate things). Any suggestions on reputable locations in London? I have looked into Systema and Karv Maga as well ... are these effective/beneficial to get me closer to my goal? Thanks.
I personally would avoid systema like the plague and if you have been at a good TKD school for a few years I wouldn't be looking at Krav either. A couple of people spring to mind. Janno in central London http://www.london-arnis.co.uk/, or if you can get out to High Wycombe you'll find jwt http://www.d-a-r-t.org.uk/ This thread will explain why I don't think another martial art will fit your needs and why you should be looking for something SD specific.
If you are in London and Looking I would recommend taking a look at Me! http://www.westlondonkungfu.com/ I cover most of the things previously discussed in the self defense sections. With some notable exceptions. I don't have the full protective kit or mats. This limits the kind of senario / attack training that we can do. I am looking in to getting the suits but I teach not for profit and the suits can be upwards of £1000 each.
I think he's based in Luton but Lee Morrison of urban combatives teaches some solid stuff from what I've seen.
I realise I'm a bit late to the game - but the question that you need to answer is for what reason do you want/need SD training - that should help you to define the kind of instructor/school that you need. I love KM and Systema but they are both systems that were originally developed for/by the military and thus carry some baggage. If you want to protect yourself from the bully at work that's different from the drunk on the street corner and it's different from the biker zombie ninja gang... different problems need different answers (OK to be technical strategies may be usable across domains but tactics and techniques need to vary).
The post above poses some really good questions. For just a general recommendation I'd point to aegis on this site. I believe he teaches and/or is involved in a few clubs in various parts of London. I suspose much of it will determine where in London you are. It can sometimes take longer to travel across London than it does to somewhere like Luton or Bedford.
The Koryu group I train with rents mat time from these guys (in fact I was there yesterday): http://www.tokeicentre.org/tokei fitness centre martial arts classes.php?id=6 Seems to have a broad range of martial arts on offer, and in addition - you may find out about small private groups that rent space (like ours) - and that may bring up something interesting. Gary
For me self defence is a system away from regular martial arts classes and while many systems claim to be based completely on self defence they fall down right from the very beginning. Every single clip I've seen from Systema has a pathetically underwhelming attack, followed by a defence that wouldn't stop a determined aggressor, yet the attacker falls over at the slightest of touches. Krav Maga seems to show every attack dealt with by stomping on someone's knee, or sending their head into the wall. Good for stopping an opponent, but not good for self defence. I teach techniques that are as direct as, and similar to Krav Maga, but I don't claim they're good for SD. SD is oh so much more. If we thing of it in phases, with maybe Phase 1 being the lead up to a potential situation. Maybe this is just walking past a group of youths, or a road rage incident. Phase 2 could be the initial verbal exchange. Phase 3 could be the posturing, pushing and positioning. Phase 4 the blows exchanged and so on. Now phase 1, 2 and 3 may only take a few seconds, but fail in any one of those and you go straight to phase 4. To me systems such as Systema and Krav Maga go straight to phase 4. Of course you need to be able to deal with phase 4, but that involves resisting partners, an understanding of how much force and when, so the back up of a legal understanding. I'm happy to smack someone's head into a wall, but only when phase 1, 2 and 3 are beyond repair and I think phase 4 is going to be something that is potentially extreme and nasty and needs to be dealt with swiftly. So Systema, Krav Kaga and many other systems may be fighting arts (I have doubts about that too), but they aren't SD arts.
I think that you are being unduly harsh on krav Maga. I know of krav maga classes that en-corporate all of what you describe in SD. In fact I think you are being unduly harsh on all martial arts. Personally I believe that any good martial arts club should contain a self defense syllabus within its teaching. I have encountered clubs from a wide range of martial arts that do. This said Self defense is a subset of martial arts and not all clubs include it. For me the thing to ask should not be "is this art or that art good for self defense" but rather " does this club teach self defense?" and the way to find that out is to ask the instructor "do you teach self defense?" and "How do you teach self defense?"
How so? Here is an example of a perfectly good breakaway technique. One we all use and teach. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDzIy4IyG6A"]Self Defence at Crawley Kung Fu School - Essential Self Defence Tips No2 - YouTube[/ame] Now I'm sure many teach this with resisting opponents; but even against a partner holding on tight and maybe trying to hit you with the other arm I don't feel it's effective self defence. It is a perfectly good technique as I've said, but without the extreme language, posturing, situational awareness, surrounding groups and so on, any instructor leaving it there is selling his students a lie. The good classes are out there, but in my own experience it isn't covered in a majority of classes, even those showing SD lessons. Are there Krav Maga schools in London you could recommend to the OP?
I have not had any contact with Krav Maga schools in London. Therefore I cannot say if any of them would be good or bad for self defense.
Mainly because the set up is false. There is worth in doing 1, 2 or 3 step sparring and increasing the pressure. I isolate movements and drill them and often find that better than sparring, but in the instance we're discussing and others like it the starting point is all false. To be effective self defence you'd have to start with the pushing and shoving and the extreme industrial language. This totally changes to perspective of the defender. Some will have their students sprint the length of the hall, then try to do a breakout technique. It simulates and adrenaline rush, then the instant necessity to be aware and able to execute the drill.
Are you saying that the movements are ok but without training them in a more "realistic scenario" the student would be unable to carry out the movements for real. So with "realistic scenario" training the student could carry out those movements for real. Or are you suggesting that in a "realistic scenario" additional factors come into play such as deterioration of fine motors skills due to high adrenalin levels and that these additional factors would make it impossible for anyone to do the movement effectively? Or are you saying something else all together?
I think there are techniques that we all do that are perfectly valid. Wrist locks, some holds and restrains etc. I'm sure we'd all agree how hard these more fine motor skills are to do under pressure, but that isn't to say they're impossible. I think as long as we're all in agreement as to where an when these techniques are of use then there isn't a problem. It's also important for the student to test them under pressure in order for them to decide which ones to keep and which ones to ditch. It's true as I've said that the fine motor skills are harder to pull off in a highly adrenalized situation, but that isn't to say they can't be done. That's why we train week in week out after all. I do feel that pressure testing is important, but don't think that full armour, or equipment such as the bulletman helmet are essential. You have to protect the student, but I think a decent helmet and body armour can be enough. I have found that my students aren't that good as acting the aggressor. They can put you under pressure when sparring, but can't act the nasty guy/girl in scenario training. This completely waters down the situation and doesn't induce the adrenaline rush. Having a good aggressor is like having a good pad man. They'll bring the best out in you.
Just learn to box. The only thing that's consitent is a pre-emptive strike. Also read Geoff Thompson or youtube him.
If you're looking for Krav in London, I can recommend Ricky Manetta http://www.mmakravmaga.com/ he trains at fight city gym near old street. Stewart McGill of http://www.urbankravmaga.org/ is also a really good instructor. Both of these guys have a wealth of real world experience and also deal with the non contact aspects well to (Simon's steps 1 -3).
I did not say anything about the technique because I am not very familiar with it and wanted to try it out first. After trying it out I have come to the conclusion that this technique sucks for this application. The small benefit that it provides, escape from a grip and a short lived trap which creates the opportunity for me to strike. Are massively outweighed by its disadvantages. I invade the opponent’s personal space with my elbow to do the technique. This is a considerable physical /emotional escalation. The technique is primarily reactive not proactive. I break out of the grip but I do not end up in a position that really limits the opponent’s ability to attack again. It also worsens my defensive structure. It escalates the emotional and physical situation but does not win me the emotional battle for control, nor the physical battle for control, nor the battle for the initiative.
