Why sport fighting is not fighting

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Tom bayley, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Though what is interesting is that humans in "spoilt" societies seem to use verbals in order to spark a fight, rather than scare off rivals.

    You don't see it happening in more dangerous countries with less access to healthcare and law enforcement, in my limited experience, unless it is part of a pre-planned ambush. You also don't see this behaviour in people here who move in circles of genuinely dangerous people - dangerous people tend to be polite because they are fully aware of the consequences of annoying the wrong person.

    The worst are the small town syndrome people. You get little fish in tiny ponds and they think they're Scar Face or something.

    I don't know if it's evolution at work and/or the infantilisation of society, but these guys going out looking for fights at the weekend to feel better about themselves until Monday act like toddlers who haven't grasped that hitting your sister with alphabet blocks just to see what happens is not socially acceptable.

    It's funny how different tiers of criminality and asocial behaviour have very different rules.
     
  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Because our 'developed' societies have essentially destroyed most male rituals and rites of passage of manhood and continue to chip away at the concept of masculinity. That hasn't happened in the cultures you're talking about so people aren't using violence to try and prove theirs.
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Maybe, or maybe it's because violence is no longer needed as a tool of survival, so for some it becomes a leisure activity.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Or an outlet....
     
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it's never the happy, well-balanced ones who go out fighting on a Friday night.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I prefer to think of it in terms of "masculinity" being redefined and refined rather than being chipped away at.
    If you are chipping away toxic nonsense then you are actually improving what it means to be masculine.

    What male rituals has 'developed' society destroyed?
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Morris Dancing
     
  8. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Term it however you like. I think it's important to recognize that you're destroying previously existing elements of masculine culture. Whether those are even replaced with anything is another issue entirely, and if so whether what they're replaced with is good is an even further discussion.

    That's down to specifics though. Not all the changes people are attempting to force on the male population are positive.

    Manhood rituals is certainly the biggest one. We don't have them any more, and there are several good sociology papers pointing out a link to self destructive behaviours, primarily binge drinking, as well as other negative changes as a result of this.

    Then you have things like the ritual of attending boys clubs, one of the only peer support networks for men and one which has been almost eradicated. What's left in that arena is often heavily criticized for its existence usually by people setting up their own exclusivist groups because they need a "safe space."

    Then because of changing demographics, family structures, societal activities, economics, etc. you have the severe reduction or elimination of many traditional male bonding rituals, specifically father-son bonding rituals.

    You also have some loss, and an increasing one, of combat and fighting as a male ritual. In the case of the type of violence we're most familiar with as consensual male violence a male ritual has actually been increasingly criminalized.



    Those are just a few examples.
     
  9. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Circumcision at puberty is the first one that springs to mind.

    y'know,"today thou art a man"

    and thou wilt be sorely reminded of it for a while.:eek:
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah...shame that one's gone.
    Same with Bride kidnapping. Those were the good old days when men were men and women were glad of it.
     
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Can't say I agree with much of that to be honest.

    Got any links to these studies about lack of manhood rituals and self-destructive behaviour?
     
  12. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    To be honest, no. They were assigned reading in university and I can't find them via Google.
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Fair enough, I'll do some digging at some point.

    People do like a bit of ritual, but as for "eroding masculinity" or whatever, I don't buy it. Masculinity has been relatively amorphous throughout history and cultures, and I don't see how it is expressed in Western culture at the moment to be anywhere near outlier territory.
     
  14. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    I don't think like is really strong enough. In many respects we require ritual. Heck the way we greet each other, say goodbye, things we do at meals, etc. there are so many rituals we take for granted, and of course many we don't, which serve profound functions.

    Cultures almost always have idyllic versions of people both in terms of physique and social action and is often evidenced in art and literature. It's not that it's an outlier, in fact many cultures tend to share extremely fundamental commonalities when it comes to masculine image, with more surface level deviations than anything.
     

Share This Page