Making a switch to TKD

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by holdthedoor, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. holdthedoor

    holdthedoor New Member

    So I've been training martial arts on and off for a number of years now, I've dabbled in lots of different styles, including boxing, thai boxing, judo, BJJ and MMA and have competed (albeit only once) in kickboxing.

    I'm looking to transition to a more 'traditional' martial art and think I've settled on TKD. There's lots of reasons for the change but it's mainly because I want to work towards a black belt in a striking art and I've also been very impressed with TKD guys I've sparred with, from the way they move (it doesn't seem to be a 'stand and bang' style) and the precision of their strikes.

    From what I've gathered there's a big mix of different types of TKD schools; what I'm after ideally is a TKD school that focuses on competition, sparring and includes hand techniques (almost!) as much as they focus on kicks, and a bit less focus on patterns.

    I know the first thing you'll tell me (and I've also given the same advice) is to just go and try the local TKD schools in my area, but I wanted some advice on what to expect from you guys beforehand.

    I think I've found the ideal TKD school - it's ITF affiliated, they regularly enter national competitions, train regularly and have a big stable of practioners and I'm looking at attending my first class this week. I don't know a big deal on the difference between ITF/WTF but from what I've gathered, ITF sparring/competition is full contact, continuous and they also allow punches to the head, these are all great and a big driver behind wanting to switch over - I thought the only traditional martial art in this space was Kyokushin.

    For anyone who's trained in ITF, generally, is there a big focus on patterns in your training? And am I right in thinking that you train/compete in full contact? Are there any weird rules like you can't spar for the first year until you get to X belt?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you guys chuck my way!
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Welcome to MAP.

    We have some good TKD guys and girls here, so I'm sure you'll get some good advice.
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Sounds good! ITF would be my choice too. Remember though, to test it in less rule-restricted environments so it keeps your training honest. Something like K-1.

    If you're not interested in over-all effectiveness and just style-specific then disregard the last part :)
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    ITF sparring isnt full contact, apart from that your spot on pretty much.
     
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Welcome to MAP.

    I'm TKD in an ITF offshoot, so don't take this as gospel, but it'll give you a general idea.

    ITF will give you hand strikes to the head, so more closely matches what you want than Olympic sparring in that respect.

    ITF sparring in a club is usually not full contact. But then, neither is most club sparring in most arts.

    The contact level will often noticeably increase with grade and most certainly at tournaments. Theoretically even back belts at tournaments are still sparring semi-contact, but in reality they aren't. How heavy the contact is will depend on all sorts of things.

    All ITF clubs will have some focus on patterns, how much depends on the club. Some clubs run different disciplines on different nights, so you could just spar if you wanted to, but in order to grade you'll have to learn the appropriate patterns.

    As you already know, so much will depend on the club, but if you've found one with a good competitive squad, it's likely to be a good fit for you :)

    Enjoy!

    Mitch
     
  6. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    In my (previous) experiences, both patterns and sparring were a huge part of the training, right from the get go, and although it wasn't 'full contact' per se, I recall quite a few lumps, bruises and bloody noses from ITF days.

    Travess
     
  7. holdthedoor

    holdthedoor New Member

    Thanks for the quick responses guys!

    I should have been more specific as far as contact goes, I'm not a meathead and am of the opinion that light-medium contact sparring is the best for developing technique etc. I think I just want to avoid a dojang that only allowed tapping as far as sparring goes, but then that might be a prejudice of mine on the TMAs from hanging out at too many MMA gyms :)
     
  8. holdthedoor

    holdthedoor New Member

    Some of the competitions I've watched on YT certainly looked full contact! haha
     
  9. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Certainly can get that way :D

    If you enjoy light/medium continuous then ITF style sparring will suit you well; find a club with a good focus on it and I reckon it'll be spot on :)

    Mitch
     
  10. kandi

    kandi Valued Member

    Hey man :) hope the transition goes well.

    As for traditional MA, I don't think you can really go wrong. Pick a style, and stick at it. Eventually you either learn to (stand up) fight, or you won't. Ultimately, it is going to come down to your training dedication and persistence.

    Please come back with an update after you've jumped in and tried it a few times!
     
  11. Deesow

    Deesow New Member

    I would reccomend Kyokushin Karate for a more real traditional art. TKD is too sport oriented. Though I agree that ITF is far superior to the WTF I studied for 7 years!
     
  12. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Valued Member

    Most of your questions vis a vis amount of contact and time spent on patterns will be club dependent to a great extant as opposed to organization - ITF dependant. I have also found that the level of contact allowed varies with rank and level of competition. Less contact for lower grades and local competition and some heavy contact allowed for BBs at World championships although a knockout will likely get you DQd
     
  13. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    No grabs, no clinch, no punches to the head, no pushing. I love me some kyokushin, for any number of reasons, but, "more real" isn't one of them.

    Mitch
     
  14. holdthedoor

    holdthedoor New Member

    I would definitely consider kyokushin as an option but unfortunately there's no clubs nearby.

    I love kyokushin and the mentality it seems to instil into it's practitioners, but to play devils advocate on your realism point, the lack of punching to the head hurts the style a bit in that respect; you could almost mistake ITF as pyjama-kickboxing in my *not educated* opinion :)
     
  15. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Not far wrong in some ways :)
     
  16. holdthedoor

    holdthedoor New Member

    First session was good, I can tell doing TKD for a long stretch will definitely tighten up my kicks, but I did have a couple issues with the training.

    I'm really not a fan of the patterns.. how do some of you guys find value in it? Genuine question, I'm interested to know what the purpose of it is; the instructor was showing how some of the movements might apply in very specific scenarios but personally I don't see how any of it could translate to an actual fight. I've trained in a lot of martial arts that have a heavy emphasis on sparring with no kata etc. and I kind of found the process frustrating.

    There are classes that just focus on padwork and sparring which I will go to next, but i'm really not keen on learning the patterns, which are obviously needed for grading.
     
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    The patterns are integral to TKD, so it's something you just have to accept if you want to grade.

    A lot of people just view them as a mental and physical challenge, to remember and perform them well. Some people like doing them just for their own sake.

    Some people analyse the movements and break the patterns apart to find self defence moves in them, just as exist in the karate kata that the TKD patterns are taken from. John Titchen on this forum has written extensively on this, and he also runs the best self defence training in the UK (IMO).

    But just doing the patterns doesn't help of course, you need to train the movements under appropriate conditions for that.

    If your view of training is purely utilitarian (I want to get better at sparring), then most of the traditional arts are going to contain elements you find frustrating. To some extent you just have to sit back and enjoy the ride. If that's not what you're after, then I'd look at kickboxing or maybe Ashihara/Enshin karate, where the kata moves are essentially sparring moves.

    Mitch
     
  18. Vince Millett

    Vince Millett Haec manus inimica tyrannis MAP 2017 Gold Award

    https://www.iainabernethy.co.uk

    It might be worth a quick look at some of the videos/articles by karateka Ian Abernethy, who shows in a karate context that there is way more to the traditional katas/patterns than even many high level people teaching them understand.

    One point is that sport TKD and karate emphasise fighting at a fully extended kicking/punching distance but the katas, being originally not sport orientated, actually contain a lot of "hidden" close quarters striking, grappling, joint attacks and takedowns.
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's strange but doing TKD as a middle aged man, with a young daughter also training, has shed more light on the utility of patterns.
    With a child the patterns are great for teaching coordination in a non-contact, non-pressure way. My daughter used to lose balance on a simple 180 degree turn. She's getting much better coordinated now. As a tender soul I know that "harder" forms of training that also teach balance and coordination (like judo randori for example) would be too harsh for her. Patterns are succinct way of getting her to "move" without needing anyone else.

    For myself I like them as movement. I'm getting stiffer, have a couple of sore injury sites and so a gentle run through a pattern is a simple way of training. Bending the joints, expanding and contracting, twisting and turning. Again with non-contact and pressure. I also like the intellectual stimulation of dissecting them and finding the useful and more practical applications (not always easy with the piecemeal way they've been put together from Karate kata).
     
  20. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Then train what you like and ignore gradings.

    We have a ITF TKD class parallel to our JJ and all I saw there so far was Kata and Kihon (well, in KOrean terms, I'm sure ;) ).
    Not sure though, what they do, wteh they're not in the gym; but seeing the people that attend, I doubt they fight :eek:
     

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