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Old 01-Jul-2011, 08:53 PM
dlloyd dlloyd is offline
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Originally Posted by caveman View Post
I was thinking more about the students than the coaches, a BJA place I recently joined (I'm a beginer by the way, should have mentioned that at start) has the biggest mat in the north west, waterloo, and top notch coaching but a shortage of seniors so after getting of to a tremendous start I've kinda drifted out of it.
I still want to do judo but its proving difficult to find a place with enough adults. The waterloo seniors class was mostly kids who were a bit big/good and bumped up, graded seniors just turned up now and again. Its hard doing something completely new at my age (my background is entirely striking styles) .
It felt embarrasing and a little dodgy training with kids.
Why not contact them and find out what the age range of members is? The average age of members of my club is around 30, but that could well be a peculiarity of this specific club.
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Old 01-Jul-2011, 09:04 PM
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caveman caveman is offline
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Location: southport
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Yes, still going to check it out.
Sambo I think is a bridge to far at my age, judo is hard enough on the body without the extra evil of leg locks lol.
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Old 03-Jul-2011, 11:12 PM
sakumeikan sakumeikan is offline
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kenshiro abbe/bjc

Originally Posted by dlloyd View Post
The main difference is one of politics.

The BJC was formed in the late 1950s by Kenshiro Abbe, an exceptional Japanese judoka who had taught at the DNBK before WWII. In the UK and Europe more generally in the 1950s, there was a drive to improve elite judo and Abbe was invited over by the London Judo Society for this purpose. His opinion was that UK judo was poor because of a lack of good elementary teaching, that we were focusing on competition too early, before we had the basics down and that only by starting from basics and improving grass-roots judo could we hope to improve elite judo.

Abbe and the LJS had a general falling out, the reasons are unimportant, but money seems to have been a major issue. There is more to it than that, but we won't go into it. Abbe's contract was terminated, which left him without a green card... which he needed to stay in the UK. Some of Abbe's LJS students, disgusted with Abbe's treatment got together and formed the BJC in order to continue training with him. Abbe was succeeded as head of the BJC by Masutaro Otani and ultimately by Robin Otani, and until he died last year, the technical director was Akinori Hosaka, who held a kodokan 8th dan.

BJC training has continued with this philosophy (in theory). There is a concentration on basic judo technique, and BJC clubs will spend years perfecting a student's standing seoinage before they are taught competitive tricks like grip fighting and drop seois. There is (supposed to be) a general focus on traditional Japanese judo, and there is more focus on reigi (etiquette).

Of course, this varies enormously between clubs.

Promotion in the BJC requires technical demonstration up to green belt and competitive success (against same grade), technical demonstration and kata demonstration from blue to black. The competitive element in BJA promotion has lately been removed prior to dan grade.

Ultimately, you're only going to find out whether you'll get much out of any club by going there and trying it for yourself.
The system of Judo promoted by Kenshiro Abbe 8th Dan was called Kyu shin Do. It was based on circular motion, and the philosophical aspects were different from the Judo of the B.J.A.
The B.J.A. due to the fact that it was the first National Judo organization was classed as being the official Judo reps. at the Olympic Games.
This was in spite of the otherJudo orgs. namely the B.J.C.and the Amateur Judo Association.This caused a great deal of ill will between the groups.
More information on Kyu Shin Do/K.Abbe can be found on Website of Henry Ellis Sensei.Ellis Sensei was a direct student of K.Abbe.
May I also state that K.Abbe was in my opinion possibly the best Budo exponent to visit the U.K.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-Jul-2011, 09:04 AM
dlloyd dlloyd is offline
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Originally Posted by sakumeikan View Post
Hi, The system of Judo promoted by Kenshiro Abbe 8th Dan was called Kyu shin Do. It was based on circular motion, and the philosophical aspects were different from the Judo of the B.J.A.
While this is true and many of Abbe's students are still around and teaching that style of judo, not everything that is labelled/advertised as kyushindo today is kyushindo. Henry Ellis goes into some detail about this on his website.
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Old 22-Mar-2017, 07:57 PM
trustlife trustlife is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2017
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Interesting all the discussion and arguments about history. I practised Ju-Jitsu in my younger days and some 25 years later was watching my 9 year old practice judo and asked myself why I stopped. So I went looking, found one club that was too violent and then found an old chap in a community hall on an estate near me, who was teaching Jujitsu and Judo. Turns out that this guy had trained with Sensei Abe in the hut, some months later a mate of his who moved to the area and also trained with Sensei Abbe turns up. 2 old guys both over 70. I learn more in a few months with them then in all my time before, converted to Judo. My daughter goes to both clubs though her registration is BJA.
My sense is its all about technique, BJC is all about perfecting technique. Some of the obscure Aikido stye things which seem impractical in traditional aikido are put to practical use in BJC technique hence Kyu Shin do. Abe sensei trained with Morihei Ueshiba. So much competitive Judo today is strength training yet Sensei Abe was a little guy. One of these old Sensei said to me that when Sensei Abe threw you you could not resist it and you literally flew through the air. The technique is in the movement, the correct balance and positioning, the fluidity and flow, rather than raw power. Both clubs have something good to offer.
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