Hardly nothing to talk about, just maybe nobody to discuss it with. The deeper principles and strategies of the ryu, deeper aspects of the kata and their henka, the subtleties of lesser known aspects of training and usage of the skills derived from such, and on and on are all worthy topics of discussion and debate. However, not everybody is prepared to embark on such a discussion. Many people still don't know what they've learned and more importantly, what they haven't. Kind of makes it hard to go deep into many of the more important things. Hard to complain that there is nothing to discuss if you don't make it a habit to start threads worthy of discussion. However, ussing necromancy on this one seems a bit interesting. Since we're discussing the good in the Bujinkan though, I would say that learning the real principles and strategies behind the different ryu, along with the philosophical side of the arts has been mind opening at times, and mind blowing at others. The way they described some of the ideas they were trying to convey in physical motion are amazing and show the depth of analysis and understanding that these people had centuries ago. I have also found a few martial geniuses in my teacher and his teacher, and have learned a lot of effective and useful things from them. Beyond that, learning and struggling to master myself has been a good exercise that carries over into everything else in my life. Thanks Soke and Sensei.
See Im only a 1st dan, and while it feels like its been an accomplishment to get here after six years (with life being determined to get in the way) I still feel I really want to get to the deepest question of everything i started asking myself since I got to this point: What is martial arts, and how does it relate to the Budo principle of this system, not just the Taijutsu but other styles Ive learnt and am learning as well
The Nagawaza is good in Ninjutsu. Some pressure testing and you can get it down giving you a great tool. For me it is the best thing in the art. Some of the strikes are OK if you get the initiative but for me the throwing was a good help in my training and something I have used in competitions and the street to great effect.
totally agree. I always felt the lunge punch while it can hit hard, always looks easily telegraphed, and some strikes need a lot of pressure testing to work well. I have recently tried out at a Shuai Jiao (chinese/mongolian wrestling) and found all the throws they use in it (which founded throws in chinese arts, acting as a precursor to judo if you believe all the history that gets talked about) already made a lot of sense and seemed familiar to me from the bujinkan)
What's nagawaza?:dunno: Do you think a jab with a short step of the lead side is telegraphed? If not, a oitsuki("lunge punch") shouldn't either.
Few things here. I thought you spoke Japanese? Nagawaza is a common Judo term for techniques involving throwing. At least that is how i learned it at the club. Secondly i didnt think the basic Oitsuki was ment to be a real attack that we used, more of a concept for a number of things. A lead jab with a step looks more compact then a oitsuki because the oitsuki is typically done with the rear hand, which has further to travel. Are you specifically meaning a jab with a step or a straight left with a step? I ask because my boxing coach and my sparring both tell me there is a difference between the two. Now me personally i dont think oi tsuki is ment to be used as is, to much going on, so i look at it as a beginner training drill with many layers of things you can learn from it. I know i practiced it on my heavy bag and against pallets of floor dry.
Oh boy... No, it's not a beginner training drill. It is several attacks in one. Pretty effective, like a jab cross in boxing.
If that is the case why is it so large and telegraphed? When i was in and practicing it, the move always include a circular arm motion with the lead hand, kinda like a jodan uke, then the step and punch. My issue with using that as is, is the over largeness of it and the fact that it seems to take up way to much room. Of course im a newb so what do i know... It just does not look like or feel like something i could use in a live or sparring situation. That and it in no way resembles a jab or a cross. If possible could you expand a bit on your simple "wrong" answers? I can accept im wrong on some of them just need to know why.
Sure.:thinking: It's not a long range lunge. Front hand attacks his front arm/guard, or in lieu of that straight for his eyes. Rear hand punch attacks head as your rear foot(which becomes the new lead foot) attacks his feet. Simple as that. Nothing to be confused about, and no need to expound any further.
it's possibly down to me looking at too many bad Bujinkan videos of late on the other thread XD I dunno, I just find the punch feels like it's a bit slow (then again, striking is not my strong suit and I've probably lost speed from being out with hip/back injury)
Pr, regarding the oitsuki im not sure im describing it. The circular hand motion is kinda like jodan uke but different. We always started it in ichimonji so the lead hand was doing this kind of open palm brush parry(the circular motion) then the step and punch. Maybe part of the problem is i have not yet done much in depth study of it in class. However equating its movements to things i understand helps alot, such as the guard clear, or as a face or arm attack with the lead hand. That kind of thing i understand. Is there any example kata were oitsuki is used in the manner you describe? I watched the koto ryu dvd and didnt see anything on that one resembling what your saying. The examples i see seem to be the lead hand deflecting/defending in some manner a punch and the rear hand striking.
Like many things in the Takamatsuden curriculum, I doubt you will find a public video of anyone demonstrating the more important intricacies of oitsuki. Especially anyone Japanese. You might though but I have never seen any. Most videos in the public domain show people doing the technique not to really hit the other guy, forcing him to move, but done as a "training" punch that doesn't really need to be taken that seriously.
I think that maybe there's another thread covering this Most dojos don't seem to use their front hand much so I understand the criticism. I felt the same way so I asked one of the Japanese shihan to teach us the basic punching This is my attempt to copy what he showed https://vimeo.com/91424994 https://vimeo.com/91424993 The key points are: - to use both hands when punching (well entering really) - the height of your shoulder relative to his is important - attack at both levels simultaneously - to attack his guard and posture rather than try to punch - to close down his ability to move/respond - to end up in a superior position The point was made that the first 3 kihon happo teach you how to do this dual sided attacking (& respond to it). This small point had quite a profound impact on my training actually Usual caveats with my vids apply.....
