Hello, what are you're thoughts on this article I found on Samuel Kwok's webpage. "BJJ and Wing Chun A winning combination In recent years that old friendship between Wing Chun and BJJ in Chicago has developed anew. The productive relationship between the two arts began in 2003 when wing chun teacher, Philip Nearing, began crosstraining jiujitsu with Carlson Gracie sr.. Phil later introduced Carlson to his sifu, Samuel Kwok, and a friendship developed that resulted in the joint seminars both masters held in the UK in 2004. In 2008 Nearing resumed his BJJ studies with Andre "Negao" Terencio and also encouraged his Wing Chun student, Sharon Gosun, to take up BJJ with Andre's wife and reigning women's world champion, Hannette Staack. Currently, Hannette has ten world titles to her credit, among them 2009 Women's World Champion in her black belt division and 2009 ADCC Women's Champion. She was recently named Women's BJJ Fighter of the Year by Graciemag. Hannette's ten world titles speak for themselves, however, she is also a first rate teacher and coach. Hannette developed Sharon Gosun into the current International Women's Novice Champion in the featherweight category in fifteen short months. Sharon won her title at the World Jiujitsu Championships in June of 2009. Sharon credits her teacher, Hannette, first and foremost for her success in BJJ competition. However, she feels that the chi sao skills she developed in Wing Chun under her teacher, Philip Nearing, were helpful in winning her title. Her chi sao experience, specifically in the interplay of the hands when getting a grip on the gi as well as the ability to switch her energy on and off, gave her an edge when it came to mixing it up in world class competition. In the fall of 2009 Master Kwok was in Chicago to give a seminar for Philip Nearing's academy and took the opportunity to visit Hannette's class. He also had lunch with her accompanied by Andre, Sharon and Phil. Both Andre and Hannette had the opportunity to observe Master Kwok's student, Philip Nearing, teach Wing Chun on a daily basis for 6 months in 2008 and very much appreciate the effectiveness of Ip Man's system. The conversation ran from business to the specific discussion of different aspects of both BJJ and Wing Chun. It was a great afternoon of exchange and mutual respect between world class practitioners of two great systems. Despite Carlson's untimely passing, in Chicago, Wing Chun and Brazilian Jiujitsu are still strong friends and allies." Link removed.
Welcome to MAP. I'm afraid I've removed the link, as MAP isn't here to promote someone else's site. What are your thoughts, as you must have had a reason for posting the article.
IMO, it's a losing combination, not a winning one. QUESTION: on what aspect of fighting wing chun spends most of its training time in? Is it ground grappling? The article states that chi sao (aka sticky hands) helped her win. Out of all the skills taught by wing chun, ONLY chi sao? FYI: chi sao have some counterparts in taijiquan (push hands) and olympic wrestling (pummeling). It's not so much a wing chun specific drill. The woman can probably enter a sambo/wrestling-oriented scholl and still gain the same skills that helped he win. HOW does wing chun fit into the picture? Did she use the adducted stance aka goat riding stance in her matches? How much pak sao and lop sao did she utilize? Boxing's efficacy doesn't rely on just the jab. Judo being effective is not just because of the uchimata. If only one element of wing chun helps people be martially effective, then all the other elements are a waste of time. That time could be better spent obtaining other effective skills. Winning combination? Absurd.
I just wanted to know if it sounds legit or not. If you believe her when she says that some of the skills she got from WC are useful in grappling arts such as bjj. I've been doing qigong, choy lee fut, wing chun (as well as some judo) and I've noticed that the relaxation concepts I've learnt in CMA can be applied to other activities. For instance, I can play metal gallops on my electric guitar faster and for a longer period of time when I'm relaxed. I also dance a little bit, since some of my best friends are dancers and they've taught how to dance. Now when I do Judo I can feel where my oponents are resting their weight, which gives me a slight edge (even though I'm not a very good fighter). So, in short, I believe that anything you learn will be useful somehow in some particular situation (e.g. Van damme got his flexibility from ballet). And I wanted to know what you think about Sharon Gosun's experience in WC and BJJ.
There is also relaxation in the modern popular grappling arts, it's called "not spazzing out." And they do it while somebody's digging a knee on their gut while lying on the floor. "Grace under pressure," as they say. And what edge does that give you over a pure judo guy who had already gained that skill mainly from judo, and has other skills from judo as well? It not just about the skills, but the question of "is this investment worth it?" The article is a subtle invitation to invest in wing chun. Are the returns worth it? Or can you get a better deal elsewhere?
Van Damme got his flexibility from ballet because he was a child using methods designed to increase flexibility in gymnastics. Adults won't get the same results.
People with Sticky hands experience tend to be pretty good at getting a deep first hand in for cross collar chokes, but they have to have via good guard or mount first.
I find there is more common elements than actual direct crossover. Taking something as simple as how I perform a collar and elbow tie up, my arm occupies centreline and looks very much like an f oo k sao (edit to avoid auto filter because it is a Chinese term!) Of course Billy Robinson teaches this too and never did a days chun in his life This is what Bruce Lee was ultimately after in JKD....a "common thread" approach. My Sifu rolls with one of the worlds best grapplers and says Wing Chun sensitivity hels him track movement - more significantly he says it allows him to open up for strikes (which moves it away from grappling of course) When I trained with Francis Fong the other week he had a relatively sophisticated ground game considering his training is exclusively Wing Chun. However, like all things the proof is in the pudding. You could probably make similar claims for karate, boxing and kali (and I do in fact stab and cut in my reading of grappling)
Surely the best way to train grip fighting is to train grip fighting, not take up another martial art that may or may not have some crossover?
Yup...but if you currently train in said art anyway (or a ******* half-breed in my case) then there are actually some surprising and beneficial crossovers
Sure, why not. It's not so hard to believe that some things from her WC training helped her out. There are lots of common skills that transfer across the arts. Coordination, balance, timing, ect. She says two of those things helped her out. What she doesn't say is that WC was her secret weapon and that she couldn't have won without it.
Here's a video of my colleague Andrew who utilises his push hands training in submission grappling. As has already been said, it's supplemental to fundamental grappling skills, not a replacement for them. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlr41UdpqQ8"]Combatives Montage - Choy Li Fut Kung Fu - Push Hands - Sanda - YouTube[/ame] Depends on how you do your sticky hands really, when I started doing wrestling hand-fighting when I relaxed into it I realised the only difference to my sticky hands was that no-one was trying to punch me. However my sticky hands is very different to the typical Wing Chun sticky hands.
