What is Ninjutsu geared towards?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Pretty In Pink, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Pretty much what the title says. Like MMA is geared specifically towards one trained opponent in a rule set. Is nu Jitsu geared towards trained or untrained opponents, armed and more than one opponent?
     
  2. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    It's a cliche answer, but I would say survival under any circumstances. It should be a complete system, not just fighting techniques, which is what seperates it from other martial arts.
     
  3. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    The art taught in the xkans iss generally a mishmash of techniques for different strategies. Ryuha specific teachings otoh can be geared towards a specific goal, or for a specific context.

    I am far from an expert, but there are big differences between unarmed fighting styles between different ryuha for example. One of the reasons is that some ryuha are geared towards fighting unarmed when you don't have arms or armour. Other styles assume you are fighting unarmed while wearing armour and having a sword at your side. In one style, this means you can be very agile and unencumbered by weapons, so your movements and techniques will be different than if you have 30 kilos of junk strapped to your body and have to worry about your opponent pulling your sword out of your belt.
     
  4. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i would go up a level and say the point of the "art" is simply to transmit a bunch of techniques to successive generations, regardless of their efficacy or their applicability to the current time.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    SOME other arts - it is far from unique in that "aim"
     
  6. pearsquasher

    pearsquasher Valued Member

    For me "Ninjutsu" is for protecting yourself, your family, your employers and your state by whatever means necessary for harmony before, during and after conflict.

    ....I got this from reading translations of Ninjutsu texts (Shoninki, Fujita etc)
    and hearing quotes from Soke Hatsumi and Sensei Takamatsu over the years.

    The "Takamatsuden" however is a selection of personal-combat martial arts that is informed by this definition seeing as some of those arts come from Ninjutsu heritage. It doesn't include things like disguise, map-reading, divination etc just the combat side, although they are sometimes alluded to and combat applications mentioned here and there via kuden - oral teachings and the experience of senior members.
     
  7. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    You need to see a doctor. Or the guinness book of records. :evil:
     
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well that's a bit vague though. For instance "any circumstances" would include fighting within a rule set that you needed to win by".

    I like the idea of methodology and strategy though :)
     
  9. pearsquasher

    pearsquasher Valued Member

    There's no rule set in Ninjutsu - just principles of nature - it not being a sport n all :). Nor is there any in Takamatsuden art either - but obviously one must consider legal ramifications of the "anything-goes" credo. :woo:
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I know. I was just pointing out that when you say "any circumstances" it includes everything. I could invent a million scenarios that nobody could survive with in the context of physical confrontation, but chose the rule set option this time.

    Basically I wanted a more specific description if one was available :)
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    "I've been training to assassinate the daimyo for 12 years, why didn't anyone tell me there weren't any daimyos left?!"
     
  12. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Conservatives are the same thing. ;)
     
  13. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    You could apply Taijutsu or JJJ in a sport or ring environment, which would be using a part of the Ninjutsu system, or Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu or Takamatsuden or Ninpo Bugei, or whatever name you want to use for our complete system. But it would be best to cross-train it with something more geared towards MMA like BJJ or Judo or Muay Thai.

    To truly be using Ninjutsu would mean getting a spy into you opponent's camp and monitoring his training methods and reporting it back to you, and poisioning him or damaging his ability to fight at 100 percent on the day of the fight. Or bribing the referee or something that would increase your chances of victory.

    This is basic Sun Tzu stuff. You never fight fair when it's life or death. Always have the odds on your side, whether it's more allies or better terrain or better weather or better weapons. So, some parts of Ninjutsu can be used in a ring setting, but it would only be a small part of the system.

    It would be like studying Muay Thai for years, and then entering a boxing match where you can't kick, elbow, knee or strike from a clinch. You'd be taking 75 percent of your tools out of your toolbox.
     
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    what does that entail? if you say, fighting ninjutsu in the "ring" means i'm taking a large percentage out, what would you take out?
     
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    The poisoning and spying and general cheating I think.
     
  16. kevin g

    kevin g Valued Member

    Well there's not a lot of newaza in Ninjutsu, at least not as specialized as you will find in MMA, which is why I said a "ninja" would definately want to cross-train in Judo or BJJ before getting into the ring, just like a BJJ stylist would want to learn something about fighting with a sword or spear, or how to ride or horse or grapple in armor if he were to fight on a medieval battlefield. Different areas of specialization.
     
  17. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i had no idea until just now that hatsumi was teaching his people how to create poisonous potions. good to know for the future.
     
  18. huoxingyang

    huoxingyang Valued Member

    THIS. This would be my general answer for most "traditional" martial arts. While many now go to lengths to find applications for a more modern context, it is my opinion that traditional martial arts are first and foremost historical/cultural preservation. That they contain (varying amounts of) useful stuff for self defence is nice, but too many people are caught up fantasies of being teh deadly.

    I sometimes remind my students that when we practice kung fu, it is kind of like doing a Chinese equivalent of Morris dancing.
     
  19. baby cart

    baby cart Valued Member

    "Should be"

    Unfortunately, it is not. You ever taught archery? Horse grooming, care and riding? How about field cooking? Majority of the bugei juhappan is not taught, and as such, many practitioners refer to other arts.

    If only they stuck that premise and had not overstepped the bounds...
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
  20. baby cart

    baby cart Valued Member

    If that's the proper definition of ninjutsu then the men of Iga weren't ninja. Yes they beat Oda Nobukatsu back home to his momma, but that resulted in royally ****ing off Nobunaga to the point he attacked the province from all sides resulting in the downfall of its independent government (and ninjas uprooted from their homes and being refugees in other provinces).

    And taking Iga away from ninja is sacrilegious blasphemy! BLAS-FEEMY I tell you! :evil:


    So in the bujinkan, it is mostly training in taijutsu, unless you are being trained in poisons, weather reading, spying, etc.

    So what percentage of the toolbox BBT occupies?

    At the same time, if taijutsu compromises much of the toolbox (80% or more), you're saying that it cannot hold its own in a prizefight? You need to cross-train?
     

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