Punching correctly in the Takamatsuden

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Please reality, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Ok cool
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Have you ever knocked anyone out before?
     
  3. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Been knocked out in competition and nearly so many times in training.

    As for knocking others out, not complete knock out cold. I'm kind of a nice guy I found out. I drop people in sparring and have in competition, they are out of it dazed but I don't like to finish them off. It was a big deal to me when it first happened, I hesitated after feeling how helpless the opponent was.

    I have ways around that now, but it took a long time to sort through these internal conflicts and be at peace with it.

    Sometimes folks only need a few seconds to recover, some times it takes them a few minutes. I hold back a little so I tend to knock the wind out of people and bring them to their knees or the ground rather than cause people's bodies to completely shut down. But this is my issue, not everyone else's.
     
  4. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    I have, once even with one punch. Nothing to brag about or be proud of. Besides the initial surprise, compassion and wanting to help was the next thought that came to mind. Not sure how it's relevant to the OP though.
     
  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    It's probably about how important experience is. Once you've done it, it is easier to know how to do it again. Takes a lot of the guess work out of it and adds confidence.

    For me I teach my students to hit harder than I do. About the only thing I might have on them besides being in martial arts longer is consistency because I can move in a relaxed manner and explode. They tend to tense up at times, leading to less consistent results.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Me either. I was j/w :)
     
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Chadderz, welcome to Rebel Wado's world:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m2WutlqBk0"]Wayne's World (3/10) Movie CLIP - Baberaham Lincoln (1992) HD - YouTube[/ame]

    Me neither... :p
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Think penetrating step in wrestling or judo, its essentially moving in from outside distance, the basic outside fighting stance is weighted towards the back leg, so you can cover leg attacks.
     
  9. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Fusen, when I look at penetration step, there is a push off the back leg, isn't there? When you push off rear foot, heel-to-toe with lead foot is typically better than landing flat.

    When you land lead foot flat, you don't push off rear leg, you spring off of it. If you push, you are actually delaying the weight shift until later.

    The landing flat foot is more like the timing of a tackle in rugby. See the timing of the foot landing and the contact with the opponent. The foot lands about same time as contact is made (either with the shoulder or the hand) at 3:09-3:40 in this video:

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQJ39bbq2uU"]Rugby Smart - Tackling technique tips - YouTube[/ame]

    They are landing heel-to-toe in the video, but the footwork and timing is that for landing flat footed. If they were striking they should be landing lead foot flat. If they are pushing or grappling, heel-to-toe is usually what is taught because you need to drive through the target. Let me see if I can find a better video showing the punch aspect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  11. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    You shouldn't need to "push off" the back foot.

    Slippy slippy.

    Again Rebel, why the unrelated video?
     
  12. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Man, I totally missed the keeping on the toes to strike as something in technique. I actually pretty much throw out that idea in lieu of separating striking steps from moving steps. The striking step is the last step that is part of your strike. The movement steps are everything else. The striking step is going to be heel down or come up on the ball of the foot/toes. It isn't going to keep on the toes the whole time.

    Movement steps (not part of striking) can be different and staying on the toes might be good for mobility.

    However, this is just how I teach it.

    There is one caveat. Being on your toes compared to heel down can change the strike's yin and yang aspects. For most men, if you want more speed but less power, you can stay on your toes (more yin). For most women, due to lower center of gravity, it is the opposite. I don't go heavy into this theory, but I do find that it applies accurately to me in most cases.
     
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You need both pull and push at different times, if you never push your missing out on half your power, 'classic stance' puts you 60/40 or 70/30 weight on your rear foot foot, your weight needs to be transfered to the front leg so you can step through and extend, or even just extend without the step through.
     
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    PR already stated the thread is for internal discussions. There are mechanics, training method, and principles that could be discussed. I feel the videos are related to the principles and principles are about the only thing we can discuss because no one is revealing anything about training methods other than general statements. Except for a few posts, no one is really talking about mechanics either because no one gets into the details of why a mechanic is the way it is... instead we get the "this is the correct way, but this is the incorrect way and I don't know why". IMHO.

    Besides, your self-discipline should not allow distractions to the cause. So maybe I'm testing the focus of you ninjas :evil:
     
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I found a boxing clip that uses the CMA 6 harmony theory.

    Image that you tie ropes between your

    - right wrist and right ankle,
    - left wrist and left ankle.

    When you throw a

    - right punch, you lift your right foot. When you land your right punch, you land your right foot.
    - left punch, you lift your left foot. When you land your left punch, you land your left foot.

    In other words, during "punching", your

    - right hand coordinate with your right foot,
    - left hand coordinate with your left foot.

    It's so easy to understand and so easy to train.

    From 1.00 to 1.47.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tTfUCuUFd0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tTfUCuUFd0[/ame]
     
  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Of course you are.
     
  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Nice exercise.

    I don't like his punch technique though. To me it is seems very point based (e.g. for points) not for knockout power. IMHO.
     
  18. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    For me the push and pull techniques, I avoid because it puts a lot of stress on my body. I think it is better suited to younger folks.

    I use techniques where i just move at the hips and let the feet go where they naturally go. Unfortunately, the window for power is shorter so it requires more good timing then push and pull techniques, IME.
     
  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If you never push or pull how do you walk?
     
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    My question is if you throw 3 punches in 1 second, do you have time to left up your foot, land your foot 6 times within 1 second? IMO, his approach is for knock out punch and not for fast/fake/set-up punch. His approach is the opposite of the "1 step 3 punches".

    Push is for power and pull is for speed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015

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