Haka

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by aaradia, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    So, a Sifu from another location of my school's posted a Haka video as an example of intention and martial spirit a few months ago. I have been fascinated with it ever since.

    Haka is a traditional war cry/ challenge/ dance of the Maori people in New Zealand. It is also used to mark other important occasions. I don't know if that has always been the case or that is a modern adaption.

    I think it is tied to the martial arts of the Maori, but perhaps Hapuka can tell us more about that? I don't pretend to full understand it yet.

    I think the idea of martial intention and spirit- giving your martial practice EVERYTHING you have is expressed fully. Whether doing a form or fighting, this is the sort of intensity that should be in every move one does.

    The people who do Haka make me feel like I would not want to mess with them more than some of the well- let's be nice and say less intense practice I see from some practicing.

    Seriously, watching Haka gives me chills. It makes me choke up with the raw emotion sometimes.

    I am going to share a couple of my favorite videos. I wonder, has anyone else here watched Haka videos? Did you have a similar feeling about them?

    On a non martial arts tangent. I feel that this sort of ritual bonding is part of something that many modern day societies are lacking -to the detriment of those in that society. Ritual bonds people and cultures. The more modern we get, the more this sort of bonding seems to get subdued. And I think it is a loss. I think this sort of thing is good for us.

    This is one of my favorites. I love the guy with the staff in the background and the fact that the bride is participating. It seems very male dominated in many other videos.

    Maybe, if I am right and this is tied to what Hapuka practices, he could talk about gender roles in Haka and if/ how that is changing in a more modern society? Or have women always participated?

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhhedH6wK6I"]EMOTIONAL WEDDING HAKA (Original Video) HD - YouTube[/ame]

    This is a New Zealand team that apparently issues a Haka challenge to their opponents before every match?

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiKFYTFJ_kw"]The Greatest haka EVER? - YouTube[/ame]

    Another grouping of sports related Haka

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pijVLqViV5I"]Top 3 Best Haka In The World - YouTube[/ame]


    This is a traditional dance troupe. I like seeing it in the traditional clothing and I like the words being posted in English to understand.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI851yJUQQw"]Original maori haka dance - YouTube[/ame]


    Am I alone in my fascination with this and my seeing the intensity of it as inspiration for how intense my MA practice should be?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    Everyone is know that has seen Haka performed, without exception, loves it and is moved by it. Though among the people I know, pretty much our only exposure to it is the start of a rugby match against the revered New Zealand All Blacks.

    Funnily enough, the Haka was mentioned in one of our instructor's pep talks. He was using as a fine example of intent. He said the bit about sticking tongues out was a gesture that says 'after I've killed you, I'm going to eat you, and take the strength of your spirit to add to my own'.
     
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    This seems to me to be a combination of a few things:

    1. In On Killing Grossman talks about the attempts we make in social violence to intimidate our adversaries into retreating so we don't have to fight them. He expanded on this to talk about how groups of soldiers would yell and scream at each other across the battlefield. We see the same thing in the pre-fight "monkey dance" in dual combatant conflicts. This definitely seems to fit that bill similar to how riot police beat their shields or other cultures would yell and scream across the field to intimidate.

    2. Most cultures have pre-combat rituals as both a "psych up" and to imbue the individuals with a power and responsibility people aren't normally allowed; the power to kill. Now I'm sure the Maori have or had other pre-combat rituals, and other cultures have battle cries and as mentioned shouted and screamed to intimidate, but based on the language and the specific ritualized manner it also seems to fit as both a pre-combat ritual and mental warm up for combat.

    3. It also seems like it would serve as a pretty good physical warm up

    So I think it's a few things all rolled all into one and something which in various forms and even separate pieces existed across all cultures but so few have preserved. I think that's its real draw. It's kind of an exemplar of a shred of shared, common heritage and the little pieces which we take for granted and so don't get saved.
     
  4. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    Hi Aaradia, you seem to have a good understanding about what kapa haka is about already which is awesome to see. Even though I am part Maori, unfortunately kapa haka was not something I really grew up with. So I'm going to use the article below to help explain a bit about what haka is about.

    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/kapa-haka-maori-performing-arts/page-1

    Haka is practiced alongside with Mau Rakau, as they are both integral to each other. Like in Capoeria, there are many movements in Kapa Haka that come from Mau Rakau as a means to preserve and teach martial technique.

    Females most definitely partake in Kapa Haka, according to purakau (myths/legends) the haka was pretty much invented by women.

    The weapon that the man in the background (of the wedding haka video) is holding is called a taiaha. The taiaha next to the tewhatewha are probably the most commonly seen weapons used in kapa haka. Unfortunately many of the people that use maori weapons in kapa haka only know how to use those weapons for kapa haka. Mau Rakau is still more or less a rarity.

    EDIT: The most famous haka internationally is 'Ka Mate', however that is not the only Haka. Many iwi (tribes), hapu (subtribes) and even organizations (schools) have their own haka. There is even a national competition that is held every year called Te Matatini.

    Other famous haka include; Tika Tonu (the one in the wedding video), translation here - http://www.folksong.org.nz/tika_tonu/

    More info here on the variation of haka - http://www.maori.org.nz/waiata/

    Haka Peruperu - [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc0bpNWioAU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc0bpNWioAU[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I see a great similarity between the Hakka and the tid ku sam iron wire form. In the tid ku sam line we do our iron wire a little differently from others. We experience and express emotion in the form. This emotion is a cornerstone of the form. Sounds, loud shouts and cries, are important both in the experience and expression of emotion and controlling the amount of air in the torso with consequent effects on the mechanical movement of the body.

    When we practice iron wire it sounds and looks similar to a Haka. I have never met anyone who practices Haka so my opinions are based soley on watching videos. To me it seems that deep emotional engagement linked, to physical engagement, along with mental concentration is key. To me a Haka is a profound, but very practical, meditative practice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  6. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    A question for Hapuka or anyone else who understands the haka, is I remember something about the second video aaradia shared got some controversy (I think?) because the French team responded. And I remember something about an England player getting in trouble because he walked up to his opposite and stared him down.

    I've heard people argue that the haka is a tradition and responding to it like that is incredibly disrespectful, and I've heard the people involved argue in return that for all its traditions etc the haka is a challenge and if the receivers feel they want to respond to it that's their prerogative.

    Outside of players responding to it looking at videos just now there's a clip of NZ playing England where the fans sang swing low over it and drowned out the chant. I'm not sure if I think that's really cool or really disrespectful.

    I know there's a lot of misunderstanding about the haka with the war dance stuff, and controversy like the one with the throat cutting, so I have no idea which of those positions makes more sense?

    And just as a random pointless addition, I remember seeing a view videos of teams who both perform dances before games doing them at the same time and that is a pretty cool sight
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    One of the most useful examples of using emotion to alter the physical behavior of the body in practical fighting was taught to me by a jujitsu teacher.

    When being thrown, smile. Smiling stimulates the autonomic nervous pathways associated with happiness. One of these nervous pathways makes the mussels in the chest relax. The more relaxed the chest, the more relaxed the body, the easier and better the brake fall.

    Also works when falling of bicycles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  8. XOtago

    XOtago New Member

    There is something special about seeing whole schools doing the haka at school boy's rugby games too.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA9Pmi2X5wM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA9Pmi2X5wM[/ame]
     
  9. Devon

    Devon Valued Member

    You could argue this from both directions, but generally, yes, the haka is a direct challenge (warrior-to-warrior, or athlete-to-athlete these days) and if the opponent wants to counter with their own challenge, that's in the spirit of the thing.

    One thing is that is often frowned upon (from a sort of "cultural appropriation" standpoint) is people performing the haka as a parody; I remember years ago the Spice Girls did a sort of jokey imitation haka and that raised some Maori hackles.
     
  10. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Makes me think of the scale of battles in the ancient world and what it must've been like to have several tens or hundreds of thousands of people armed to the teeth shouting at you.
     
  11. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    https://youtu.be/nDHkbvZrlJE

    Sebastian Chabal is unimpressed
     
  12. XOtago

    XOtago New Member

    Some can get pretty intense... [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VRsqVCzVg8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VRsqVCzVg8[/ame]
     
  13. Mianbao shifu

    Mianbao shifu Just standing around

    I have been in martial arts to long, I saw Haka, and thought Hakka...imagine my surprise when I opened the thread
     
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Having seen a sifu from your lineage (macloud) perform this form, I have to say I agree.
     
  15. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Here is a really cool one with a MMA angle. A Haka for Mark Hunt. With a celebrity appearance, so to speak, by Game of Thrones actor Jason Mamoa. I wonder if Jason Mamoa trains MMA or if not, how he got connected to this send off for Hunt's upcoming fight?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcR1Z2J85zE
     
  16. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Mamoa has done a few martial arts over the years for film rolls and trains bjj now so that might be the connection here
     

Share This Page