Do they teach you how to get out of things like headlocks in wing chun?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Vinny Lugo, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    So as you all know since I left Florida I have been looking for a good place to study MA in Chicago. I found one good Shidokan Karate place that basically combines karate with mma. Then another wing chun kung fu place with a lineage that traces back to Wong Shun Leung (Ip Man's disciple). The wing chun place looked good. But do most wc places teach you things like how to get out of a headlock and a bear hug?
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Before you learn how to get out of a head lock, you need to learn not to get into a head lock. In order to do so you have to learn how to

    - dodge your head under your opponent's arm,
    - push away your opponent's elbow joint so he can't give you a reverse head lock.

    After you have been head locked, you can use your palm, push back on your opponent's forehead, punch on his chest, and ...

    As far as I know, these counters are not part of the WC

    - solo forms training,
    - sticky hand training, and
    - wooden dummy training.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    No knock on WC, but I really don't see you being happy with that style. Do you know they have forms with no footwork? Where you stay in the same place?

    I have no idea if this is a good or bad example of the form, but it does give you an idea of the basics.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTxanE4pbs

    This just doesn't strike me as something you would be happy with -from your past posts. Not knocking the style, just doesn't seem like a good fit.

    I also think it is a shame you seem to have ruled out the CLF place so quickly, just based on having to learn a few weapons. Not because I am a CLF person with CLF bias, I have told others here in the past I didn't think CLF was a good fit. But for you, it might be.

    But then again, you don't seem happy with any style after a few weeks. Not a knock on you, just an observation.
     
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It depends very much on the school

    Wing Chun is - to be frank - a bit patchy at times

    However, I have trained with some EXCEPTIONAL Wing Chun teachers, and yes they do cover this type of material...howver as Aaradia has alluded to it is not a "quick fix" martial art

    Sifu Francis Fong is one such individual who has a very pragmatic approach to Wing Chun (and he was actually kind enough to compliment how strong my full nelson was :) ) so the material is out there

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZWiypUppeA
     
    Rolo1982 likes this.
  5. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Perhaps a more important question is do they teach you ways to get out that work?
     
  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Generally no, no it won't.
     
  7. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    How should a "style" be defined?

    IMO, all the major principles should be recorded into the forms. If an important principle is not addressed in the form, this particular principle may come from "cross training".

    The same argument, since the footwork is not recorded into those 3 WC forms, it makes people to wonder, at which training stage will the WC footwork be introduced.

    Another concern that I have is, WC may be the only MA system that during the beginner training stage, one tries to punch with his arm only and not involve with his body rotation. After one has developed such habit, it will be difficult for him to remove it later on. When I started to train the 1st WC form, I already knew the basic MA principle, "one should only see the body move and not see the arm move". I felt very uncomfortable to "freeze my body" and "move my arm only".

    The "arm only" punch can be seen from your clip.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTxanE4pbs
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  8. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    Yes, and after checking out the class I observed that too. I saw sticky hands rolling and a series of quick strikes to the face. But I saw no grappling and no advice for getting out of common holds like headlocks, bearhugs, chokes, etc. I didn't know if they taught it later on. Guess not?
     
  9. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    No I kind of didn't check out the clf class because I was too busy talking to the wc guy. I looked at clf videos online. It looked a lot like muay thai from what I saw. Does it teach you how to get out of headlocks and whatnot? Also yes, the footwork seemed similar to kickboxing and that appeals to me.The wc footwork encompassed you just sitting there and barely moving at all and striking. That looked boring and it seemed like a good wrestler could take out a wing chun guy with ease.
     
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    There are 3 stages to deal with "head lock".

    1. Counter it after it has happened.
    2. Prevent it from happening.
    3. Take advantage on it while it happens.

    IMO, 3 > 2 > 1.

    Your opponent's "head lock" will give you a free "under hook". If you are good at some "leg skill", you want your opponent to use "head lock" on you. Now it will be your "under hook" skill against your opponent's "head lock" skill.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxXPSCOMBk&feature=youtu.be
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  11. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    No mater where you're not going to train - a single class is hardly to be taken into account for a *complete* program, the instructors and/ or styles might have or include or not.


    When, for some reason, you don't see an armbar in a BJJ trial it doesn't mean, that it's not included in BJJ.
     
  12. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I have not ruled out clf yet though. I just know nothing about it. Thats all
     
  13. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    Yes that confused me too. I took boxing and muay thai at the last place and turning the hips hard to generate torque was how you generate power. This was not present in wc.

    Another thing that bothered me wae the lack of physical fitness. No push ups, sit ups or resistance training in the class. I'm wondering how they generate power with no strength.
     
  14. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I know that. That is why I made the thread to see if its usually a part of the curriculum
     
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You can do both of that at home.

    You

    - go to school to learn.
    - come back home to train.
     
  16. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    But in my last school that was part of the training
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So?

    It's not a martial arts schools job to get you fit - that is a bi-product

    I have to be honest Vinny you have a lot of strong opinions but dont really have the experience or expertise to back them up. Go train, have fun and the rest will handle itself
     
  18. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I am just trying to see what I am getting myself into. Thats all
     
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You will have less time to "learn".

    I don't like the following approach:

    - You go to school to train.
    - You come back home to rest.

    I do 60 sit up and 60 push up at home daily. I see no reason to repeat that in school.
     
  20. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I guess it depends on the style and how important physical fitness is to the style
     

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