Are you forced to learn all the weapons if you don't to?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Vinny Lugo, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I really loved my last school I went to in Florida but had to move. Now I am trying to find a new school I like and it is difficult. I wasnt that interested in traditional MA but Im willing to give it a chance. I found a choy lay fut school here and it seems really good. Their training techniques tend to be very similar to muay thai with a lot of full contact sparring and it looks similar to kickboxing. However there are a lot of weapons in the cirriculum. The staff and the knife I could easily see being applicable to real life so I would train in that. But learning the sai, naginata, etc seems pointless. Is learning the weapons a choice?
     
  2. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I would be very careful never to ask those question the instructor or someone similar.


    Aside from that: If they're part of the curriculum but you don't want to learn them, why not try to find something else in the first place?

    In the end it really doesn't matter where you not go to train though.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    They will give you tremendous attributes development. Push ups aren't part of kung fu either, but I bet you won't ask to be excused from those ;)
     
  4. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Why not just go to kickboxing or MT if that is the bit of the CLF that appeals to you the most? More guarantee of getting better instruction too.
     
  5. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I thought this may antagonize the instructor if I asked them. Thats why I didnt ask. They also teach wing chun there. That I know is quite effective. Also the only weapons to learn are staff and butterfly knives which seems much more applicable to real life. I may consider that instead
     
  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Indeed.
    Every instructor I ever met hated it, when you asked questions.
    Besides, if that would annoy him, I'd consider training with him; way to easy to be annoyed then...

    Surprise: Depends on the school as well.

    You know what also is much more applicable?
    To actually go and train at one place.
    Don't just look once or switch after a few months.
    Not trying to be mean here, but you seem to forget that part.
     
  7. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Most choy li fut schools will only teach staff, sabre and butterfly knives to their sub brown belt students.
    You are unlikely to ever be involved in violence as an adult and a school that doesn't teach you to beat Joe Public in a couple of years is not especially worthwhile, therefore martial arts syllabuses are full of stuff that's of limited applicability but is interesting, challenging and builds attributes.
     
  8. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    I guess its because there are so many weapons to learn and it just seems like a waste of time
     
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    You don't get to pick and choose and tell a school how to teach. Not just martial arts- any school teaching a skill.. You go to a school, you are agreeing to their curriculum. Asking to pick and choose is saying you know better as a beginner than the experts there and is disrespectful and rude IMO.

    Sai? naginata? Are you sure it is a CLF school? Any web links? Know the lineage? Sai is a Japanese weapon for sure. Not a Chinese one. That makes me wonder if that school is mixing up other things into their CLF. Ok if they advertise it as such. Not ok if they don't. (Edit- I just googled naginata and that is also a Japanese weapon. CLF has plenty of weapons, I wonder why they are mixing in Japanese ones into a Chinese art curriculum?)

    At what level do they teach these weapons? At my school, weapons training isn't until intermediate levels and you don't get lots of weapons until the more advanced levels. We start off with the stick and staff- both two of the more practical weapons out there.

    Frankly, you seem to find a lot of reasons to not train in this or that. Having goals is good. Knowing what you want is good. Being so picky for everything to fit just so or you won't train there is a way of never getting any training in. And never developing any skills.

    CLF is a great art. Give it a try. Well, once you find out if they are really teaching CLF. I am having my doubts with the Japanese weapons. It has a lot of what you want, so don't shut off the entire art because it has one part you don't like. You might find that one part is fun and teaches you things you didn't realize are helpful. And, I seriously doubt you get to the weapons part at beginning levels anyways.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  10. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    Well the place I was looking at gets pretty good reviews on google. Plus one of the founders and instructors of the school went to Hong Kong and trained with Wong Shun Leung (Ip Man's main disciple) so I am really doubting that its a mcdojo. It looks legit
     
  11. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    This question has 2 opposite answers.

    Look it is usually best to seek out a style that you are interested in and will enjoy. If you can't get exactly what you think you want then just find the closest thing in the area and get stuck in.

    Styles vary a lot. Even within Choy Li Fut there are schools that have only a couple weapons sets ( I think less than 5 sets in total) while others have over 170 sets. Which is right? Who knows. Just get going.

    On the other hand, in spite of what you are being told it has been historically common for people to buy sets from sifus. Big business in some ways. The guy who went to HK and learnt from WSL probably paid a pretty penny to do it. (even within the same system!)

    We had a guy who paid to go to HK and learn a famous WC set from a guy there. Paid a lot. Came back and my Si Hing said I could have shown you that. Guy said no way a gwei low in Canada would know this stuff. Was he shocked when he was shown the same set he paid so much for!

    So yes you can buy sets but really you need to know what you are buying before you get into all that. Learn one thing and build on it!!

    (by the way Kano in judo did this, I think Usheiba in aikido did the same.. it is western idealism that makes the foibles of the eastern arts disappear when people move away.)

    The biggest secret in the martial arts is go, study and train. Preferably with someone who will test your skills in some sort of realistic way.

    LFD
     
  12. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member


    Ok its not sai and naginata. But this place is supposed to be awesome.....


    http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com/
     
  13. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    So they don't teach ANY weapons until you're at assistant instructor level, and only teach spear staff and sabre until you're WELL past black belt.
     
  14. Vinny Lugo

    Vinny Lugo Valued Member

    Huh?
     
  15. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Their syllabus is on the website.
     
  16. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    No,sai (and tonfa) are both used in some CMA systems,at least in some southern ones.However,they are not called "sai"( or "tonfa").

    That is odd.I would understand using a name like "sai" due to its prevalence in the English speaking world,but naginata?Halberd would make more sense.
     
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Gwan Dao surely?
     
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    mmmmmm.......that's a very specific type of halberd. But "polearm" just don't sound as cool, I suppose.
     
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Sai is the name of a Japanese weapon. That school uses the Japanese name. There may very well be a Chinese equivalent, but they didn't call it that- did they? (Assuming things are as OP reported.)

    Hence, my original point stands. I don't trust a traditional school using terms and/ or weapons from another systems. If they clearly state that they are doing a hybrid art, that is fine. But traditional CLF does not have a Japanese Sai called by that Japanese term.

    If they even said, "Chinese name" more commonly known as a Sai, that would be fine too. At least they are demonstrating their knowledge of the history of the weapon and the culture(s) it comes from then.

    If they can't keep their weapon names straight, how can I trust they are keeping their principles, techniques, forms, etc straight? Again, if it is advertised properly, that is fine.

    Now this school may be fine. it would not be my only criteria in choosing a school, but for me, that would be a warning sign to investigate further.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Sai is the Japanese name for a weapon used across Asia.
    Remember the weapons only have Chinese names because we learned them from Chinese people, there's nothing special about the Chinese names, they're just the Chinese words for sword, knife, stick, spear, big knife etc. Sai is functionally the English word for the weapon as it doesn't exist in the West, just as Khukri, machete, tulwar etc are borrowed words in English.
    Fundamentally it doesn't matter what you call stuff provided people understand what you mean.
    But anyway, the school in question doesn't teach Sai/gen/iron ruler/whatever.
     

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