Traditional wing chun vs modern wing chun?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Bubble99, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. Bubble99

    Bubble99 Valued Member

    Traditional wing chun vs modern wing chun? There seem to be some schools out there now teaching some of these newer modern wing chun. :Alien::Alien:

    Okay. :Alien: So you know the Traditional wing chun like this.

    The old traditional wing chun like this?
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rsYdyMTh1c"]Women of WingChun - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTkEdy1s98"]Gary Lam Wing Chun Los Angeles HD - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr717yFKNbs"]Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu - Los Angeles - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o23nw6-t_E"]Traditional Wing Chun Hand Techniques - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Rwn2gTaLw"]Tei's Los Angeles Wing Chun School at LA Fit Expo 2014 - Part 3 - YouTube[/ame]


    Some of these new modern wing chun seem very odd and different. In my opinion, if I was going to a wing chun school I would pick the old traditional wing chun.:p:p But that is just me.


    I wonder what some of the members here that are training in wing chun or have had training in wing chun think of the modern wing chun.


    Some modern wing chun like this.
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaVwu4mn0Ys"]Wing Chun Houston,Texas - YouTube[/ame]


    The web site does not say what type of wing chun it is :cry::cry::cry: other than it is some modern wing chun. It looks very different than the old Traditional wing chun.
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    It's not modern, it's just a little more alive than some of the stuff out there.

    If that's the case good luck to them.

    I think MMA has made a lot of classes wake up to the fact they could and should improve their physical conditioning and pressure they work under.
     
  3. Bubble99

    Bubble99 Valued Member

    The hand striking is really odd and the way they move and the hand striking seems really strange and different.

    Not sure what type of wing chun this is?
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaVwu4mn0Ys"]Wing Chun Houston,Texas - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    This video might help explain from their lineage.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVytoKRPiJY"]HOME VIDEO SIFU DUNCAN LEUNG - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    For what it's worth I thought that clip looked like typical stiff, 'dead' training and not very functional at all.

    Everyone looks super rigid and uncomfortable and the techniques seem pretty unlikely to work.

    there's no timing, energy and motion in the drills/training at all, just patterns and pulled uncomitted strikes.
     
  6. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I kind of think this self conscious, rigid sort of martial performance is a consequence of your teacher being like "NO YOU MUST KEEP YOUR ELBOW HERE" rather than your techniques being an expression of functionality.
     
  7. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Although there's no reason you can't be both technically proficient and functional.
     
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Agreed, I'd argue that they're largely overlapping categories. I think the difference is that technical proficiency is found through live practice as opposed to through someone stopping you each time and saying 'elbow here'. I could give a beginner a lot of pointers about their armbars, but ultimately any level of refinement is only reached through meaningful experience, i.e. you only remember to pinch your knees after that braggart Steve once again slips out of the clutches of glorious armbar.

    Steve.
     
  9. Avenger

    Avenger Banned Banned

    Sometimes people can't see the forest because they are stuck in the trees.
    Like most arts, training methods are there to develop the body in certain ways, but instead people take styles to literally because they can't see the big picture.
     
  10. Bubble99

    Bubble99 Valued Member

    No I'm not, I was just asking want type of wing chun it is? Is it some mixed wing chun with some thing else or some new modern wing chun.

    It just the way they strike it like rolling fist or like how a cat strikes not sure what they call it:bang::bang::bang: but the first 5 videos of the start of thread was not like that at all the so called traditional wing chun.
     
  11. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Certainly true. You bounce back and forth between live application and pure refinement of movement in any style.
     
  12. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I've noticed that there's a pulse to training where you run into a dead end and have to work on refining your basics, fine tune some details for a few months, and then there's an explosion of innovation of possibilities until you go back to the refinement stage again. At least, that's how it feels :]
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    "Elbow here" can be okay for rank beginners (you can demonstrate why, but I think it's bad manners to smash their ribs), but very soon you have to be able to demonstrate why the elbow had to be there. If you have training partners who have equal stake in an exercise, this will become self-evident.

    This is a potential pitfall of partnered drills, but if people are sparring a lot then this informs the drills and it isn't a problem. The flip side that often gets ignored is that sparring also has potential pitfalls that solid partnered drilling, as well as solo work on form (not talking about forms as in kata), can inform.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Here's a question for you:

    Why would you train anything that doesn't look like fighting?
     
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Fun, health benefits, social reasons, confidence/ego boosting.

    Not that I would train anything that doesn't look like fighting though.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I have a feeling these kinds of sensible answers weren't what Avenger has in mind...

    Not sure I agree with the confidence/ego boosting though, unless you mean purely in a health/social context. Lots of people have their ego boosted only to have it cut down again when they spar someone who trains in something that does look like fighting.
     
  17. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Some of the 'fighting positions across all martial arts especially grappling are quite bizarre, pretzel-like affairs that make the most eccentric Wing Chun positions seem simplistic.

    I honestly tried to sit through all of the videos, and there's a lot of different things going on there, from female empowerment through contact training, to Ozzy Osbourne being used to cover ho-hum. In my opinion if a kung fu video has a hard rock or heavy metal score, it will not be that great, so if I don't have to mute a video, it's a winner.

    The Houston Texas training program with the heavy metal soundtrack that I had to mute in order to watch, seemed very tame, thus the need for a more epic backing score. The SIFU DUNCAN LEUNG video had a lot more contact, and was largely unscripted drilling, people practicing their guard, striking, and defense and so on. Since I didn't have to mute this video, I could actually hear the contact and grunts of practice. And at least in the Gary Lam video the guy getting thrown into the mat is learning something useful.

    That is all just my superficial take though. Traditional Wing Chun seems nothing like any of these videos really, these are more like modern interpretations of Wing Chun based on different contributing factors, like movie personalities like Donnie Yen, traditional fist sets, modern self defense training (good or bad), Donnie Yen, Bruce Lee, Yip Man. I can never tell if the robotic movements of Donnie Yen inform Wing Chun, or vice versa, but Wing Chun seems to suffer a sort of cineamatification (sp?), but moreso than some other kung fu styles. A lot of the popular Hung Kuen movies are from the 70s and 80s, but Wing Chun has enjoyed a lot of modern hits. If you look to the screen for kung fu, you'll take on that form. So the best way to learn Wing Chun like with any kung fu would be to take it into combat and by that I don't mean your school I mean fighting tournaments, MMA and the like.

    There are at least a few UFC guys who dig 'Shaolin' styles and why not, but as yet, little to no Wing Chun folks with few exceptions. Sean Obasi, a very mouthy "Wing Chun Man" became a MMA guy but with a Wing Chun slant. To be a 'Wing Chun' or 'Hung gar' or 'Xingyi' fighter you have to earn that reputation. And always remember even on a perfect day, the best Wing Chun Donnie Yen Snake and Crane master types can get juiced inside a jiujitsu pretzel., Dragon style. :D
     
  18. Bubble99

    Bubble99 Valued Member

    That is why I said that video was some kind if new wing chun.

    Wing chun was for close space and up close fighting :eek::eek: if the person was really close.

    If you are moving and have space to move than this is not Wing chun.:mad::mad:

    The traditional wing chun you are standing still or moving very little and up close!!

    Wing chun was for close up and short fights and not fights over two minutes.

    It IS NOT like some boxing you see or some karate where you go in and hit than go out than go in and hit and go out so on like some fighters.

    Wing chun was not design as long range fighting like some boxers. So if the wing chun person was to fight a boxer he or she would have to make dam sure to stay in close range and train to defend the boxer uppercuts and hooks. And the boxer would have to hit the Wing chun person before he or she got close and keep the distance.

    At least with boxing can be used for short range and distance.

    The Holly Holms is in a really good boxer champion of move in and hit than move out and is super fast than move in and hit and so on.:bang::bang: Well this will not work in home invasion, elevator, on a city bus and close space where you have very little if any room to move around. Nor does taekwondo would work in this setting.:cry::cry:

    The southpaw boxing footwork is good for out side well the bad guy tries to chase you well he takes the hits.

    And in the parking lot or street Holly Holms could play the bad guy out just by her moving.

    Even Ronda Rousey was not train on Holly Holms footwork and was very embarrassing. She was like why can't I catch her or keep up to her and any time I get close I get hit and she is gone so fast.

    But southpaw boxing footwork or taekwondo would be no good getting attacked in a home invasion, elevator, city bus and close space where you have very little room to move.

    This new wing chun seem odd and strange to me. I would not waste my time with it.

    If I was to take this I would take boxing or traditional wing chun over this new wing chun.

    Just join boxing club as some boxer are really good at moving you into a wall and you cannot move and you get many hits but that is not Holly Holms style.

    Holly Holms more move in and move out very fast and like chess board than some other boxers that are aggressive and move you into wall and you cannot move.
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think that once again your entire lack of any experience whatsoever is showing through in your posts

    Here is an idea - talk less and train more, because right now you flying blind
     
  20. Bubble99

    Bubble99 Valued Member

    It looks like some mixed system or new Wing Chun.

    This looks like some mixed system or new Wing Chun in Dallas and Hoston
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiJgIXb6eqc"]Houston Wing Tsun Kung Fu - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw5eyXg5U44"]Houston Wing Tsun - Sparring Drill (Jardin & Jason) - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGz8UvfhAQo"]Dallas Wing Chun at the Fretz Rec - YouTube[/ame]

    The way they strike it like rolling fist :bang::bang: Where did this come from? Some movie? Never seen this in traditional Wing Chun

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62OhuzfOBOw"]Regarding Kick-Defense - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBfWVMJ5JQ"]Backyard Wing Tsun - Jason Got His Elbows Down! - YouTube[/ame]

    Looks similar to the Houston one.
     

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