Suicide Squad

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by aikiMac, Aug 20, 2016.

  1. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I really wanted this movie it to be good because (a) Harley Quinn is so hilarious, and (b) it's a chance for Amanda Waller to become DC's version of Agent Phil Coulson, which could be very cool, and (c) so many other superhero movies are good, and I like them. But it did not deliver for me. Such potential, but such a poor execution.

    I think the prime reason is lack of continuity from scene to scene. The movie as a whole feels like a whole bunch of brief scenes that, taken in isolation, are fine, and are sometimes even funny, but they weren't glued together correctly, they're not always complete, and worse, some of them just don't belong.

    The background stories, for example, seemed forced, and the one with Deadshot and Batman just doesn't even seem right. I can't believe that Batman would attack a villain under those circumstances. It hits too close to his own origin. The Croc story was incomplete. What did he do to get caught? Slipknot and Katana and Enchantress' brother were all left out of the backstory altogether, and then, poof, they just show up later. That's poor planning and poor editing. :dunno:

    In the Enchantress story line we're missing more than we're told. We're supposed to feel a love story, but the ingredients just aren't there. We're supposed to believe, because it's demonstrated to us, that the magic item (I won't say what it is) controls her, but then later in the movie when Waller pulls the item out again she can't make it work. Wait, why not? :dunno: What's the point of making a big deal about the magic item if it doesn't always work? And if it can be stolen easily? And, come on, how could the writers and director forget that
    the linchpin of Waller's "Project X" is that Waller can control the Enchantress by poking her heart. That exact point was exactly why all those military and government people gave Waller permission to create the Suicide Squad. Yet, notice that when Enchantress goes rogue and Waller stabs the heart repeatedly, nothing happens. The Enchantress is still loose and out of control. And notice also how easily the Enchantress stole back her heart. Why didn't she ever do that before? Why did she remain a prisoner for so long? I'm not supposed to think of these problems while I'm watching the movie, but this was such a glaring problem that I couldn't ignore it. :mad:

    And the whole storming the building scene -- OMG, are you kidding me? Seriously? I'm supposed to believe that
    Amanda Waller could not get out of her own building? That Waller didn't have an emergency escape hatch of some kind? That she couldn't get to the roof all by herself and call a helicopter by herself, without the need for the Suicide Squad? Really? That entire sequence was an insult to the audience. :mad:

    And the night club scene -- What was the point of that scene with respect to the plot? I can't tell you how that scene contributed to the plot, or even fit into the overall movie. :dunno:

    And I'm tired of rain in action movies. Just -- stop with the rain.

    Did Croc kill some scuba guys? I think so. But what was the point of that quick scene? He let the last diver complete the mission, so where is the continuity? That was an out of place scene. Again, sloppy editing. :mad:

    The version that played in my movie theater did not have the trailer scene where they're at a bar, and Deadshot says, "What am I, twelve?" And Diablo asks for water, and Harley says, "That's a good idea." There was a bar scene, yes, but it did not have those line. :mad:


    Suggestion for the movie company: I would have loved to see a movie that focused on Deadshot and Diablo. Those two guys were very charismatic alone and when together. And they both have the wounded hero background that makes for interesting stories. They would have made a great duo for an anti-hero movie.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Enchantress though :love:
     
  3. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Agreed. :)
     
  4. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I actually didn't see it because I had been hearing similar reviews. The whole reshoot and refocus of the movie ("DEADPOOL DID WELL, BvS DID NOT, we need to make jokes!") sounds like a soul-less and ultimately crippling decision. Like I get that these movies are made to make money, but once you pick a director and endorse his vision, maybe go with that.
     
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    On that point -- I read that the director was scrambling at the end, frantically trying to finish it on time, and that's why the editing is choppy. And the reason he ran out of time was exactly as you implied, that he went back and reshot a bunch of scenes to add more humor to the movie. :dunno:

    Bad decision, Mr. Director. Really bad decision. :mad:
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I'm in agreement here. Although, I'm not sure if I hate the movie or give it a benefit of the doubt.

    David Ayer is quite hit and miss. His hits were Fury and End of Watch. His big miss was Sabotage. Which ironically, i believe is what got him to do Suicide Squad as the crew and characters are similar.

    Also to note that like Sabotage, there was rumoured to have strong studio intereference. As much as the idea of the Director having full control (which is true most times), the final cut actually goes to the Studio.
    They(Ayer) initially has shot down those rumours but it's very clear here. The editing style of his previous movies are, slow, concise and coherent. Unfortunately, this was more Michael Bay like. 2 second cuts.

    Did expect a little more Joker, but at the same time...as big as a name he is. They were open with the plot that Enchantress was the mission and Joker would be used in another film (most likely in next Batfleck film)

    I have a lot of individual gripes with this film. I can (as many others) can sit here and pick it apart. There is a awesome movie trying to burst out though.
     
  7. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think it was more like Josh Trank and the Fantastic Four in that the director reaaaally didn't have much choice in the matter.
     
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I actually really liked Sabotage.

    That moment in life when you start to question your taste in films...
     
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Theres actually a lot of contraversy with that film too. Apparently Arnie has sort of disowned that movie as Ayer and Arnie initially wanted the film to be more of a murder/mystery...but studio intervention forced it to be a action film.

    Echoes of Suicide Squad.
     
  10. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    You can't be talking about this one, can you?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabotage_(2014_film)

    Eegads, I stopped it after 20 minutes or so, because it was so bad. I mean, really bad. Really, really, bad. :cry:
    Note to self: question VZ's recommendations of movies in the future. :jester:


    I hope it is so that the studio execs, not the director, are responsible for the re-shoots and editing, because I'd much prefer to blame the studio than one guy. Ayer must be crying at how it turned out, and how much criticism it's getting, you know? :cry:
     
  11. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Being a DC comic's fan I watched the movie and thought it was 'OK'. It certainly wasn't terrible, but I felt that it totally missed what the suicide squad was about. It's meant to be thematically a supervillain's dirty dozen who take on threats that good guys with capes won't touch or to neutralise threats which are very grey and politically quite embarrassing for the US if the mission goes wrong, with 'plausable deniability' being really important. If the team screw up then the US can blame it on random supervillain's. If they succeed, then they go back to their cells and the US pretends nothing happened because it was a murky mission in any case.

    There wasn't anything in the movie which normal superheroes couldn't handle. A suicide squad story is really meant to end with the reader/viewer being challenged with if the mission did any good at all.
     
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Not having read any can you give some insight into how motivation and characterisation is handled in the comic.

    I'm intrigued after your comments on theme, which were really interesting and seem to paint the original series as perhaps a little too nuanced and politically subversive for a mainstream superhero franchise (sadly), though maybe others have pulled it off.
     
  13. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think you really hit the nail on the head; DC's movies seem unable to capitalize on what made the original great.
     
  14. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    How can DC Comics make such great TV shows (Arrow, The Flash) yet such terrible movies? The extended Deadshot side-story that was part of the CW's Arrow was really well done. And I'm guessing that show has a tiny fraction of the budget that this movie had.
     
  15. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Well in the first issue they are tasked with taking down a terrorist organisation who are using powered superhumans (called the Jihad! Oh the 80's!) in a fortress that is difficult to reach/destroy and that for political reasons the US doesn't want to commit ground troops to.

    In the 5th issue they have to snatch a political dissident from behind the iron curtain without the soviets knowing, something that is politically sensitive if it goes wrong.

    For me the crux of the series was The relative dynamic between Amanda Waller and colonel Rick Flag. The Villan's were a revolving door of characters, but the stand out dynamic was the relationship between the amoral and angry director who (sort of) thought the villain were expendable for the mission as means to an end and the conscience stricken soldier who led the squad on its missions. While some of squad members became more detailed and humanised, i.e. Deadshot, the series never achieved cult status without the very grey decision making of Amanda Waller who as a middle aged big black woman was something different and refreshing. A character who when threatened by Batman told him squarely she knew he was Bruce Wayne and if he wanted to continue his nocturnal activities not to interfere.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016

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