Been doing Judo now for about 8 months, going once or twice a week, and have reached the dizzying heights of 5th Kyu. The thing is, I really struggle during ranodi, and don't feel like I've pulled off a legitimate throw on anyone that I've sparred with. I've caught a couple of white belts with a very poorly executed tomonage, but these felt more like flukes than anything else, and never managed to throw anyone of equal grade before. I always seem to manage to get a grip, then have a complete blank as to what throw I can do from that position, giving my partner time to throw me or get a better grip and dominate me. Admittedly, where I train, everyone is either a higher grade than me and/or weigh more than me, but these just feel like excuses I try to use to justify it to myself. How long should it realistically take for someone doing Judo to start being able to pull off even the occasional throw in randori? Am I being harsh on myself, or am I genuinely learning a little bit slower than the norm (I don't mind if that's the case, just would like to know...)
I know, that's not what this is about, but am I the only thinking throwing new people with this throw is a bit risky? Especially if you're right and it's not good executed?
IME tomoenage is actually very safe in practice. Osoto gari on the other hand... But I think you may be coming at this from the wrong direction. Trying to consciously decide which throw to fit into a given moment won't work. The moment will pass before your brain catches up. Set out two or three techniques that complement each other (avoiding one opens up the opponent to the other, for example) and work those. Have them ready for when an opening appears and learn how to create openings for them. When people catch on and expect those few throws, examine their reaction and pick another set of throws that capitalizes on what they're doing. You have to set up your approach so you move without trying to think so much about it. Also relax and focus on hitting your throws smoothly with minimum muscle. Accept that your throws will fail more often than not and be able to move to the next when you meet any resistance. Easier said than done, but if it wasn't it wouldn't be worth doing.
If you have right leg forward, your opponent may have 1. left leg forward (mirror stance) - You can use your leg to attack the outside of his left leg (1st side), or the inside of his left leg (the 2nd side). 2. right leg forward (uniform stance) - You can use your leg to attack the inside of his right leg (3rd side), or the outside of his right leg (the 4th side). When - your opponent moves in to throw you, your chest will touch on his back (back door). - you move in to throw your opponent, your back will touch his chest (front door). If you can just pick up 6 throws to cover these "4 sides and 2 doors" situation so you will have at least 1 throw for each situation. For example, here is a possible starting point. 1. 1st side - Harai Tsurikomi Ashi (Lifting Pulling Foot Sweep), use your right foot to sweep the outside of your opponent's left foot. 2. 2nd side - Ouchi Gari (Large Inner Reaping), use your right leg to hook the inside of your opponent's left leg. 3. 3rd side - Kouchi Gari (Small Inner Reap), use your right foot to scoop the inside of your opponent's right leg. 4. 4th side - Osoto Gari (Large Outer Reap), use your right leg to hook the outside of your opponent's right leg. 5. front door - O Goshi (Large Hip Throw), stand in front of your opponent and throw him forward. 6. back door - Ura Nage (Rear Throw), stand behind your opponent and pick him up. After you are good to do that, you can then expand from there. If you can have - 2 throws for each situation, you will have developed 12 throws. - 3 throws for each situation, you will have developed 18 throws. - ... IMO, that's the best training path for your throwing art. No matter what situation, you will always have some throws to use.
If every one is a higher grade or larger then you, then it will take a while before your able to throw them with any regularity. It sounds like you already know what your problems are, grips and throw selection. Have you tried mental mapping the throws, chain throws, and setups you know? I find 'french randori' really usefull, its just half power randori without much grip fighting.
I definitely find myself overthinking as to what throw to do in the given situation and missing my opportunity, or focussing too much on not being thrown that I become defensive and forget I need to be attacking too. At the moment the throws that I tend to favour in nage-komi are tai otoshi, uchi mata (from the outside of uke's leg as opposed to underneath if that makes sense), ippon/morote/eri seoi nage and harai goshi (although I sometimes struggle with these throws against the heavier guys, especially when I'm worn out). So do you think I should work on say kouchi gari to ouchi gari, then use these to open up to one of the above throws? And I've been told before that I need to relax more, and appear to be very stiff when sparring, which then compounds issues by making it more difficult to throw and obvious to my opponent when and what I'm going to do. But again, I tend to find myself stiffening up and being defensive to try and give myself time to think of what throw to do, and just making things worse... Maybe this is something else I need to try more of, maybe asking before the fight if we can go slower so I can try to work on my throwing...
If your too defensive, your partner will have to throw you hard, try relaxing more, and letting yourself get thrown a bit, your partner will also relax, and youll get more out of it. randori isnt shiai.
all your throws are big comitment forward throws, your need throws to all four corners, and some low comitments (footsweeps etc) ones in their too to get them moving.
If I caught someone in my club throwing a white belt with tomoenage, I'd level them with the nastiest thing I could think of - cut it out! You need to be able to do a throw almost perfectly in order to execute it in randori, so it's not surprising you are struggling after only 8 months. First, remember that it isn't a competition And it's not a fight. You are playing. If you're stiff, you're not playing, you're fighting. Go into a round with an aim - 'I'm going to kouchi, then seoi' then go do that. If an osoto presents itself, take it, but you are always looking for the kouchi seoi combination. If you don't get it, then try to work out what was going wrong, then in the next round, try an adjustment.
Once or twice a week for 8 months isn't that long in any martial art and Judo has a steeper learning curve than most, just stick with it things will eventually start to click into place.
Seems to me that you might be concentrating a bit too much on the ending rather than being in the here and now. The saying is putting the cart before the horse. What I mean is that there are three parts to the take down (1) First unbalancing -- generally the head, (2) Second unbalancing -- break connection between spine and hips, (3) Finish -- take the legs away. (4) Recovery/Pin -- not part of the take down but what happens after is important to also train when your training partner tries to gain top position or get back up. Just working the eight directions of unbalance (Kuzushi). See 3:03 in the video) and pay attention to your training partner's head movement to show the direction of unbalance: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46veLgINFjU"]Mifune - The Essence of Judo (subbed) - YouTube[/ame] Here is a good video on how to get kuzushi: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78"]Kuzushi - Judo Excellence wth Neil Adams - YouTube[/ame] You say you have been training 2 days a week for 8 months, that's a lot more in Judo than I've ever trained, but I feel your situation could happen in any martial arts training. Going into something like randori with just the goal to working kuzushi (using the opponent's head movement as an indicator if you are doing it right) will free your mind from having to think about the throw or being overly defensive. The throws should come organically... meaning you practice your throws outside of randori to perfections, then in randori, just work kuzushi, square up your opponent, and then the throw is just like in practice.
I would like to just say that we were both white belts when I caught them, and it was during both of our grading to yellow, so I wasn't trying to bully people with far less experience than me or anything, but I'll certainly take your advice on board and avoid tomonage for the time being. I never thought of it as being dangerous nefore, and certainly don't want to hurt anyone by being careless. A few people have mentioned similar things, and going into randori aiming to try and do a specific throw. So I'm thinking maybe tai otoshi as I'm (relatively) comfortable with that and then kouchi and ouchi gari for forward throws. Any others you could recommend for the other corner? I'll then go and just drill these throws over and over again, along with practicing some foot sweeps, and then focus on trying to find openings to pull these off in randori. And try to relax more at the same time too
tomoenage is a hard fall to take. Beginners will be tempted to post their arm out and then you start running into orthopaedic surgery territory. You won't catch anyone who knows what they are doing with a throw in isolation. You need to set it up with a combination. Judo is all about action/reaction. You need to get that reaction before you will be able to throw
Feel a bit stupid for trying it now, just never considered that before. Definitely shelve tomoenage then, would feel awful if I was responsible for something like that.... And sorry, I meant drilling them as combinations, then trying them in randori. So drilling kouchi into ouchi gari, kouchi into tai otoshi etc. So, give it a year or so and I might be good enough to actually pull something off
Hi rob0107, Judo (and any grappling art) is extremely technical. It takes around two years to be able to throw an opponent in randori with any kind of regularity. When you pull it off before then, it's largely a fluke. Just keep at it. It's not "who's best" but "who stays". Remember that everyone you're trying to throw is also improving along with you. In addition, you're trying to make people fall down, and those same people are among the best int the world at NOT falling down. Don't be surprised if you find it frustrating. You won't get a decent gauge of your improvement until you're fighting people how are about two belts below you. Currently, there is no one two belts below you! Also, sacrifice throws are usually illegal to be performed on or by 6 and 5 kyu in randori. Drilling is usually OK. Don't do them until that yellow belt is in your closet, never to be used again. No Tomoe Nage, no Tani Otoshi, etc. I'm a 3rd kyu, and I'm the only one left from my beginning group of white belts. Likewise for most above me, and a couple below me. All it takes is to try your best and stick it out. It may take more than two years, it may take less than two years. In the end it doesn't matter... in 10 years you're be pretty darn good!
Besides the "breadth first" approach that I had suggested. You may also try the "depth first" approach. How about just spend the next 2 years and concentrate on "1 throw only". You do have to force yourself not to use other throws. Wrestle 15 rounds by using only that throw daily, keep your win-lose record. Repeat this for 2 years and get your final win-lose record (15 x 2 x 365 = 10,950).
I agree with YouKnowWho. High level Judoka don't have a whole arsenal of 30 throws drilled to perfection on both sides. As general rule, you'll add one throw to your repertoire a season. Everything else is just a setup for your favourite throws. I would just learn a couple of foot sweeps and a throw or two and call it good as far as randori is concerned. You'll have to learn others for the sake of gradings, and you also never know what you might learn that you could incorporate quickly. Sometimes your body knows how to do a throw almost right away and it goes to the top of your list. For example, let's say you have a great Uchi Mata. Unfortunately, let's say your foot sweeps aren't that great, as Deashi Harai and the like take some really good timing. Your opponent might not know that. He still has to defend the foot sweep anyway (you could still get lucky after all) and you use them to get him in a wide enough stance to do Uchi Mata. Boom! So anything that isn't your high-percentage throw is just used as a setup.
