Vegetarians/Vegans - Animal fat necessity?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by inthespirit, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. Ros Montgomery

    Ros Montgomery Valued Member

    You're right mdgee, vaccines can have side-effects. But it's important to look at the risk from disease versus the risk from vaccination:

    Measles

    Pneumonia: 6 in 100
    Encephalitis: 1 in 1000
    Death: 2 in 1000

    vs vaccination

    Encephalitis or severe allergic reaction: 1 in 1000000

    Diphtheria

    Death: 1 in 20

    Tetanus

    Death: 2 in 10

    Pertussis

    Pneumonia: 1 in 8
    Encephalitis: 1 in 20
    Death: 1 in 1500

    vs. vaccination

    Continuous crying, then full recovery: 1 in 1000
    Convulsions or shock, then full recovery: 1 in 14,000
    Acute encephalopathy: 0-10.5 in 1000000
    Death: none proven

    The benefits of vaccination greatly outweigh the small risks! Your family will probably be fine though, as the majority of children in the Western world are vaccinated and the herd immunity is maintained. The more people who think like you though and don't vaccinate, the greater chance there is of outbreaks occurring when the herd immunity dips; we've certainly had measles and pertussis outbreaks in the UK. Even if your children are lucky and don't suffer any serious side-effects, would you not feel responsible for any of the unlucky ones who maybe medically couldn't have a vaccination? Children are more likely to suffer serious adverse effects from any of these diseases than they are from vaccination and my opinion is that any parent who doesn't vaccinate their children is irresponsible and ill-informed.
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Mr Montgomery knocked that one out the park. That sums up why you should vaccinate in a nutshell.

    Honestly the more I read about vaccines the more I realise what a pile of old nonsense mdgee is spouting. Dangerous nonsense at that.
    I'm starting to view vaccine efficacy denial like holocaust denial.
    Utterly devoid of intellectual rigour and ultimately offensive to people that have suffered and died due to the illnesses vaccination prevents.
     
  3. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    In terms of vegetarianism, veganism and drinking milk, what's natural isn't necessarily what's healthy and what's healthy isn't necessarily what's natural. When we talk about 'healthy diet' we're usually referring to a diet that maintains the body's abilities into old age and extends lifespan. Neither of those are necessarily what evolution is acting towards - in fact, in many species evolution shortens their life span so as to improve their reproductive yield. Off hand one example I can think of is a group of scientists artificially selected beetles for longer life spans, but, in doing so, reduced their lifetime reproductive yield. Remember - nature acts on only a few attributes - age at first reproduction, number of offspring and their degree of independence, and finally reproductive lifespan and the rate of aging. If your genes don't affect those in some way, they're pretty much just subject to drift. Modeling your arguments regarding what improves personal health on what historic man survived on is a bad argument.
     
  4. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    Zaad, sorry but all you will find is the CDC making claims that vaccines are not responsible for any deaths. Google Andrew Wakefield and tell me what you find.
     
  5. mdgee

    mdgee Valued Member

    As I said one post back, and I should have followed my own comments. I will not be discussing vaccines on this thread with brainwashed followers of the CDC. This thread was not about vaccines but I told you why, in part I will not take them. They aren't vegan and therefore aren't suitable for anyone who is vegan. This post has gotten away from the original question because some of you seem to love arguing about vaccines with b.s. from webmd and the CDC. Do you honestly think the CDC is going to admit fault. Merck has several lawsuits pending for MMRP deaths and they've already lost the first round.

    Now, I am unsubscribing from this thread with the hope that it can go back to supporting the original question for this thread. The last thing I intended was to hijack this thread but that's what all of you have done when I said I wasn't going to do that.
     
  6. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Wakefield falsified data while in the employee of a corporation seeking to advance their alternative version of vaccines... Not the best source..
     
  7. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    [/quote]

    Hey how come you never responded to my question about your claim about vaccines and the Amish? It was a simple, direct question. I go to Lancaster County now and then, so your claim interested me.

    I'm not a brainwashed follower of the CDC, so please answer.

    You're the one who made a lot of unqualified claims about vaccines with no proof, or studies, or science (are you the brainwashed one?), so if anybody is responsible for derailing the thread it was you. We were talking about veganism and you got up on your high horse and started making unsourced medical claims and ethical codes about product consumption...also not relevant to the topic of " Vegetarians/Vegans - Animal fat necessity?" but here we are.

    /unsubscribe, but be honest about why, brother. The thread was supporting the original question before you even posted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    A liar and fraud and a worthless scumbag who has endangered lives and found fertile soil with the tin foil hat brigade

    What's my prize?
     
  9. frownland

    frownland 【ツ】

    I've been reading recently about how it's rampant in Pakistan, where the Taliban have convinced people that vaccination is a CIA-backed conspiracy to sterilise the populace. Volunteers giving the medication to kids in poor areas are being shot for their efforts.
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Googling Andrew Wakefield should bring up exactly why you shouldn't think there's a link between vaccines and autism.
    The fact you are using him as an example of the veracity of your claims shows just how lacking in substance they really are.
     
  11. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I didn't bring up the CDC - why not check out MOOCs from china or the UK that aren't linked to America?
    You didn't even google what I suggested did you?

    You have a case of full blown willing ignorance.
     
  12. Ros Montgomery

    Ros Montgomery Valued Member

    *Ahem* Mrs Montgomery. :D
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Heh. I see it now. Ros not Ross. Apologies.
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Hi Ros :) *waves*

    Mitch
     
  15. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I think any lives that may of been lost due to vaccination are massively outweighed by the lives saved. Sticking your head in the sand and hoping you or your kids don't get infected is just irresponsible?
     
  16. Ros Montgomery

    Ros Montgomery Valued Member

    Hi Mitch :) *waves back*
     
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Sorry for the thread necro but I've been thinking about this some more as something similar has been posted on facebook.
    And it's just such an asinine statement.
    Animal's don't drink milk because they can't digest it or can't make use of it or find it objectionable. They don't drink it because they don't have hands or machines to extract it and/or domesticated animals that will stay still long enough to be milked.
    Animals make use of all sorts of foodstuffs that humans don't. Should we take a lead from that too?
    Elephants eat crap directly out of other elephants bums. How many vegans are lining up to do that? It's totally natural!
    The "animals don't drink milk therefore we shouldn't" is just another variation of the "appeal to nature" fallacy.
     
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    hey dude.

    let me ask you.....

    you believe this wakefield guy with no critical though at all. and yet, you completely dismiss the tons of evidence available, publicly, that very specifically does not link autism and vaccines. literally, google 'vaccine autism studies' and read the published papers. don't take my word for it.

    so why is that? why do you believe wakefield, who since by now i'm sure you know has been completely discredited?

    you also posted a blurb about a youtube video that apparently shows a link between vaccines and autism. why do you believe that video?
     
  19. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Humans do a lot of things no other animal does and have fed their young the milk of livestock since we've kept livestock. We got this far that way!

    The Amish drink lots of milk by the way, and they make great ice cream.
     
  20. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    And FURNITURE

    Vegan or Be Gone

    Is there such a thing as "Hardcore Vegan?

    Certain religious groups seem to take upon some Vegan Idealogy

    On that, can a Vegan be a part of a religous group?
     

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