What is a McDojo??

[KickChick]

Somebody had asked this question on another thread... fortunately for them they were not familiar with such a term....

Here is the definition according to rec.martial-arts Newbie Guide:

"These are usually schools who's sole goal is to part you from your money without ever imparting any realMartial Arts knowledge. These can sometimes be difficult to detect since part
of the successful money-student separation is to convince the student thatuseful information is, in fact, being taught while devising ever more ways toimplement the money-student separation.
This separation is often achieved by having fee after fee after fee and required expenditures on and on and on. For instance, schools that requireyou to buy only their branded uniforms and gear, require you to sign long contracts, have no "move refund" option in their contract, or high-pressure sales pitches. Another common tactic is to have numerous belt test requirements and sub-ranks, all with a fee, non-refundable if the student"flunks" his test. An example would be a school which has students ranked,"Second Stripe, Decided, Green Belt" or similar. These schools may also require weekend training trips.

Besides the red flags listed above, a few other's that may indicate a "McDojo"include: Any school that promises you a Black Belt in under 3 years or routinely produces Black Belts in 2 years. Any school which seems to have overly young or inexperienced experts (usually "Black Belts" or "Dan ranks") -for example a school recently made the news, noteworthy because they had justpromoted a three year old toddler to "Black Belt" and they had a five year oldchild as a 2nd Dan (second degree) "Black Belt."

[Chazz]

Yeah there are a lot of "schools" out there that are like that. Ive noticed a lot of school start out great but as soon as greed, politics, and the idea of loads of money comes into mind then you see, faster promotion, shorter classes, and rates go sky high. You will hind school with loads and loads of black belts and most are real young but none of them have been there for more and 2 -3 years. When you ask them why and how somthing works and why they do it, most say because i was told to do so and leave it at that.

So for anyone in here that hasnt started MA yet check out a school. Look it over in and out. Ask as many questons as you can. If you have a bad feeling, then most likely there is a good reason behind it. Go and hind a place you will like to be at.

[Andrew Green]

I prefer this definition.

McDojo - A successful school that does things in a way that opposes the brainwashing that the person using the term has recieved.

[Falling_link]

McDojo... McDonalds..... i think i see a link there somewhere!

[Greg-VT]

Yeah, a drive though for junk food /forthought

[kempocos]

This started at a site called mcdojo.com it is now know as BULLSHIDO.COM. Here are some more hints

The owner created his own style because he knew better than his instructor. With this they often jump to back belt by promoting them selves to black or higher.

Lists a history that can not be verified , or is proven to be lies

No contact during sparring, or no sparring at all

The very asian sounding name is a mix of CHINESE, JAPANESE, KOREN words that do not mean what the creator ( see first example) says it does

self defense moves are not practiced at full or even half speed.

questioning about techninques relation to reality is met with stern remarks

There are other signs but I think the Idea is coming across.

[47Ronin]

i go to a school like that but got looped into a contract. if anyones interested what style it was developed by chuck norris and i recommend no one do it- chun kuk do. total b.s. brings me to another point dont sign contracts.......

[xubis]

Hmm.. my school only charges £3 for a 1 and a half hour session, but we can by gi from anywhere, there is one kid who is 12, he is a black belt, but he is actually pretty good. We have a few young kids that are brown belts. But my teacher always answers questions and waits behind and lets us question what we are doing..

Am I training with a McDojo?

[informah]

i like my school

70 bones for 3 months of as many classes as u wanna go to

[pgm316]

To me, McDojo means high prices & false flashy image, but doesn't acheive this in a cost effective or realistic way!

[Freeform]

McDonalds - Pretends to sell food.

McDojo - Pretends to teach MA.

Col

[Kwan Jang]

-I would consider any school that fakes it's own credentials (sometimes would take some research to know this). Waters down the standards, espescially for a certain fee. (opposed to altering requirements due to physical challeges. :ex. I don't think anyone would deny that Bill Wallace was worthy of his black belt, but due to his knee injury, he may have trouble passing a non-modified rank test on techniques on his right leg). IMO, a school being good at the business side is a plus, rather than a minus. As long as they do not compromise their standdards. Since tthe quality of your advanced students and black belt graduates IS your product in martial art instruction, sacrificing this is a horrible and self-defeating mistake. I have read posts speaking of high tuition or many students as a sign of poor quality. Though I know cases where some schools do have high prices and a lot of students have less than impressive results in terms of technique, it would seem that many of these people must be getting some value from this for any lasting success. The comparrison is like saying that top universities like Oxford, Stanford, and Yale must be inferior to the local community college because the Univ. because they charge more and have more students. This to me is ridiculous.

[Combatant]

McDojo-

Loads of black belts
Loads of black belts that should not be there
Lots of branding/marketing
Lots of dosh needed to participate


ALl of this means that even after a long time of training you will still be no tougher mentally or physically then when you started. Isnt this afterall what learning to fight is all about?

[cmaauk]

There are quite a few of these around. I got a group of guys knocking on my door last year asking if i was interested in learining karate (obviously could not read as my Association is advertised in big letters on the back of my car!)

Anyway i listened to them and questioned them in full. They told me i had to pay £20 up front to reserve my place and then lessons were £5 / hour.

I declined but then went to the club to watch a lesson. Didn't see any Black Belts, just a brown and a guy with a black & white belt on. I asked him what Dan grade he was, he seemed very nervous at this and just said "i'm the Instructor". He gave me the phone number of his boss. So a rang it and to cut a long story short he was actaully Green belt!.

Now that is a McDojo!

Needless to say the club did not stay open long, but it did move to another location.

[hongkongfuey]

a guy with a black & white belt on

Black and white belts - I have also seen used before in other styles to represent an instructor (of undefined grade). Personally think this is a bit of a cheat, as many students will believe they are getting taught by a black belt, when they may be many grades lower.

(Not that belt colours really matter, but that is another discussion entirely )