How close is too close?

[Burbs]

So, I'm asking this in reference to a situation I was in this morning at the local post office. It was somewhat busy and as it usually goes there was only one or at a couple points two 'tellers' to help customers.

The guy behind me was in his late 30's early 40's in age, but was more hyper and fidgety then a 2 year old with ADDHD on a giant sugar rush. He was constantly pacing and/or getting right next to me in line. He also was an average of about 6 inches behind me the entire 20 minutes I waited. So close that putting my hands on my hips would cause my elbow to hit him if he was next to me, or if I just reach in my pockets - my elbows would hit him while he was behind me. I thought after I 'nudged' him twice he would give me back my personal space, but to no avail. I kept quite and just really watched my wallet and pockets.

Would I have been out of line to ask the guy to calm down and back off? Or even ask if there is something I could do to help him? He was making me nervous as hell and got an 'odd' vibe from the guy even though no words where exchanged. Anyone been in a similar situation and said something? How did it go? Just something I'm curious about.

Cheers

[Davey Bones]

On the plus side, be thankful he didn't clobber you when you "nudged" him.

Anyway, it's always best to be careful. I'll usually move as far away as possible. No sense in being uber-paranoid, but no sense in getting too crowded, either (I have SERIOUS personal space issues). I honestly think you did the best you could have under the circumstances. Only other thing you could have done would be to ask him to back up a bit if you thought he would actualy listen.

The biggest problem is that in a supermarket, post office, mall, etc, the lines are so crowded there is a certain amount of space you end up sacrificing.

[SteelyPhil]

I really loathe people getting into my personal space. I can stand it when its on a packed train or in a squashed in queue. But if he had space behind him he should have tried to be more central.
I recently gave a middleaged woman such a dirty look that she took to steps back. There was just me and her in the damn queue and she was standing so close I swear to god i could feel her breathe. Another similar situation was the fat businessness man at macdonalds, in fairness he was technically about a foot away, but the belly reduced that to about 2 inches. He got a dirty look and stepped away (i couldn't go any further forwards without bumping into the Hot girl in front, in hindsight i probably should have ).
I'd say within a metre if the space is unbusy, and within a foot if things are a bit crowded. If its packed its packed, so touching is fine.... as long as its all above board

[TheCount]

The only way is to ignore that sort of person.

He is probably tripping through some form of drug abuse or is fidgetting about his dole money... Probably both

[ap Oweyn]

Alternatively, he could just be from elsewhere. Different cultures have very different senses of personal space. The British, stereotypically, seem to want a lot of it. (Me included) In college, I had a Russian roommate. And he was most comfortable right up in your face. It wasn't a challenging thing. And he wasn't trying to be confrontational. That's just where he was used to being when with another person.

[Burbs]

Originally Posted by GangrelChilde

On the plus side, be thankful he didn't clobber you when you "nudged" him.

The biggest problem is that in a supermarket, post office, mall, etc, the lines are so crowded there is a certain amount of space you end up sacrificing.

My nudge was nothing more then my elbow hitting him the couple times I tried to show he was too close. I also understand that in some situations space is at a premium, it was busy but not crowded. I did take note on my way out that most people had an average of about 18 inches or more between them.

Originally Posted by SteelyPhil

I recently gave a middleaged woman such a dirty look that she took to steps back.

I should have tried to make eye contact and gave the guy a cut me a break look to see if he would have backed off - its nonverbal and should be taken as non threatening and might have worked.

Originally Posted by TheCount

The only way is to ignore that sort of person.

He is probably tripping through some form of drug abuse or is fidgetting about his dole money... Probably both

He was well dressed, not that it means much but lets face it, the fact he was in a suit and tie helped as opposed to a dirty wife beater. If I was not in the little kushy suburb that I work in, I might have been a little more concerned.

Originally Posted by Ap Owen

Alternatively, he could just be from elsewhere. Different cultures have very different senses of personal space.

He was middle-eastern/Indian for what its worth. Never really thought about cultural differences. Heh, for all I know the guy just had to pee really bad now that I think about it lol.

Thanks for the insight everyone

[SteelyPhil]

I hope I wasn't just accused of insight during my rant of being rude to strangers

[ap Oweyn]

Originally Posted by Burbs

He was middle-eastern/Indian for what its worth. Never really thought about cultural differences.

It'd be worth more if someone here were particularly familiar with those cultures. I won't pretend to be. I only know about the Russian thing because of a Russian roommate.

Anyone?

[SteelyPhil]

My Indian friends family aren't big on personal space, his mum is always about an inch when talking. This might just be isolated though (some people are just like that lol).




She also insists i'm too thin so tries to fatten me on cake. If a stranger does that to you, something is really amiss.

[sprint]

Originally Posted by Burbs

So, I'm asking this in reference to a situation I was in this morning at the local post office. It was somewhat busy and as it usually goes there was only one or at a couple points two 'tellers' to help customers.

The guy behind me was in his late 30's early 40's in age, but was more hyper and fidgety then a 2 year old with ADDHD on a giant sugar rush. He was constantly pacing and/or getting right next to me in line. He also was an average of about 6 inches behind me the entire 20 minutes I waited. So close that putting my hands on my hips would cause my elbow to hit him if he was next to me, or if I just reach in my pockets - my elbows would hit him while he was behind me. I thought after I 'nudged' him twice he would give me back my personal space, but to no avail. I kept quite and just really watched my wallet and pockets.

Would I have been out of line to ask the guy to calm down and back off? Or even ask if there is something I could do to help him? He was making me nervous as hell and got an 'odd' vibe from the guy even though no words where exchanged. Anyone been in a similar situation and said something? How did it go? Just something I'm curious about.

Cheers

can't you see that he was hitting on you?

[slipthejab]

Originally Posted by SteelyPhil

My Indian friends family aren't big on personal space, his mum is always about an inch when talking. This might just be isolated though (some people are just like that lol).




She also insists i'm too thin so tries to fatten me on cake. If a stranger does that to you, something is really amiss.

Many Asian and South Asian cultures have a totally different sense of space. I was reminded of this week when in a restaurant that overlooked a promenade two Chinese guys were walking together... one had his arm over he shoulder of the other guy... and that guy then reached up and held his hand while they walked and talked. No one batted an eye and there was no issue of sexuality or anything like that.

This is a very common way for men to act towards each other in Asian and South Asian cultures. I'm sure much of the same can be said for the Middle East... even more so in the less urban or cosmopolitan areas.

I've dealt and worked with many Indians over the years and their sense of space and touch is very different to that of westerners. Very similar in a sense to Italians. They'll put a hand on your shoulder to express a point and then leave it there for a good while. It's something that many westerners interpret as being 'gay' or an invasion of space.

It's neither really... just a different cultural reference point on body language and personal space. Generally I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I've met many Africans who are strapping physical specimens... but you go to shake their hand and you get a dead fish. The lightest, daintiest touch you could imagine for such big strong men... that'd never go over in the west. Not at all. But in Nigeria or Mali it's considered normal. No raised eyebrows. Nothing.

Ok...
That being said... here in China people have a very different sense of space because it's crowded... but even though I know that the I've quite often physically told someone to back the *bleep* up... and they usually then realize just how much they're crowding and back off.

For me there is a pretty big difference between someone crowding you dodgey style (as in pickpocket/speed freak/terrorist) and someone who is just culturally different in terms of personal space.

[Burbs]

Originally Posted by slipthejab

For me there is a pretty big difference between someone crowding you dodgey style (as in pickpocket/speed freak/terrorist) and someone who is just culturally different in terms of personal space.

Excellent first hand information, thanks slip. About the part I quoted - I'm in the same boat and like I said he just put off an odd vibe. If he had not put off this vibe I would most likely have not made the post.

[CosmicFish]

I have some pretty strong personal space issues too. Really don't like people getting too close to me. With something like that it's probably best to avoid saying something though. If they're all hyped up they're less likely to react in a rational manner.

When someone does that to me I usually start to move slowly but randomly about, shifting weight onto my other leg, changing stance, etc, making sure that one or two are in a backward direction that cause me to bump into the person behind me. Then turning around looking surprised and mumbling sorry. Most people will get the hint and back off a bit, especialy if it looks like you're going to keep moving and fidgetting a bit yourself.

On a cheeky side note, I used to be able to save up a good fart for the train journey home specifically for encounters like that. I only managed to use it effectively once, but it was a corker.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by slipthejab

Many Asian and South Asian cultures have a totally different sense of space.

I've had this too... couple of chinese girls we looked after for an exchange sort of thing. They had a complete different sense of personal space and seemed much more touchy feely almost.

The guy was probably just a typical business-man ie. lacking all patience, politeness combined with a total ignorance as to how their behaviour effects others hehe

[SirVill]

In general, people from countries with high population density (China, Japan, India etc) often have smaller personal space ratios.


You see it here in NZ with the difference between country and city folk - city folk are comfy at about a metre or so, whereas country folk are better at about 4 metres.