question, where in the bible does it say its wrong to be homosexual?

[jroe52]

I am a social studies teacher and this question came up in my head lately. As a straight dude... I often hear other guys saying that its a sin in the bible. I've read the quotes where its a sin to "lye with a man the same way as you do with a women" or "not to sodomize another person/man/animal"... ok... so

sodamy/anal sex is a sin.... maybe its gods way of preventing stds hehe...

but... where does it say its a sin to love/marry/date someone of the same sex? thats what i am confused on.

because most of what i see/hear is that its a sin to sodomize or mimic male/female like sex... which is understandable. but i never read anything that was like "if your gay, you go to hell" or anything like that. anyone want to show me the right wing religious argument?

i don't want to debate this, i'm just curious about random quotes that show that its clearly wrong... thanks! often my students will debate this, which christian students often say they'll go to hell and other students say who cares...

[Moosey]

Originally Posted by jroe52

I am a social studies teacher and this question came up in my head lately. As a straight dude... I often hear other guys saying that its a sin in the bible. I've read the quotes where its a sin to "lye with a man the same way as you do with a women" or "not to sodomize another person/man/animal"... ok... so

sodamy/anal sex is a sin.... maybe its gods way of preventing stds hehe...

I could be wrong, but I don't think it specifies that sodomy is buttsecks. Sodomy is a catch all for "sexual perversion" but I'm not sure there is any specific act defined.

[CanuckMA]

jroe52, it does not say it. Torah states that the for a man to lie with another man as with a woman is a sin. Simply being gay is OK.

[jroe52]

I wrote this to godhatesfags.com the famous creeps in america:
Don't you guys get bored? I mean, don't you sit at home sometimes and think... man am I bored. I mean, I love video games. I play them as much as you go to rallies. But eventually I get bored and move onto a new game.



Doesn't your endless ranting after a while feel like, hmm... well were not making any progress, maybe god wants us to do something new.



Remeber what god said in the bible several times, thou shall not judge. Maybe you'll find better use of your time doing something else on this planet? Leave the judging up to god, or you might end up in hell with the "fags" you so much despise.

[jroe52]

Her/their response:

Dear Jeremy Roe –



You have no idea what you are talking about! Do you think that the servants of the Living God would be bored? Boy - your email is a reality check! I didn't realize how boring the life of a typical earth dweller was. God is good to his people! If we had any more excitement in our lives, we would likely spontaneously combust!



You see - our lives are full and complete. We have such interesting experiences. We travel! We have children that God has blessed with good hearts and bright, shining minds. Funny and fun to be with! We travel - boy do we travel! We have driven, flown, walked, run, shuttled, taxied, driven some more, etc. to all corners of this nation! We travel with people of good will and with a desire to serve the Lord their God! Further, we talk - boy do we talk - we talk to each other early and often, and we talk to people of every language and every tongue, and every tribe in this earth. We talk on radio or TV, internet, talk show, etc., etc. We get to see the face of Doomed america, up close and personal. You see - you have been misled by the lying false prophets and the phony Christians - so called - you think that serving God = being some kind of morbid freak - and if you are really righteous, then you wear dumpy cloths and the girls wear smocks with big pockets and long sleeves in the heat of the summer and skirts in the dead of winter - and you don't actually look anyone in the eye and for heaven sake you don't own a TV set, blah, blah, barf, barf!



But above all of this - our God has given us the mysteries of the gospel and the sword of the Lord - that is, the word of God!



And one more thing – we get to suffer with our God – we get to see the rage of this generation and as we watch, we know that for all your evil intentions, our God is willing and ABLE to deliver us out of all of your mischief! Further, and better than that, he has purposed to confuse, confound and defeat your counsel – and he has purposed to cause you to fall in the very pit that you digged without cause and to be taken in the snare that you set without cause in your efforts to make us stop telling you faithfully that your sin is taking you to hell and so much more! In fact – God has given us your very necks for to destroy you! Check this out:



Psalm 18:29 ¶ For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.

30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.

31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

32 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

33 He maketh my feet like hinds’ feet, and setteth me upon my high places.

34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.

36 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.

37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.

38 I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.

39 For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.

40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.

41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.

42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.



Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.



Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



Here we are - you know us by our characterizes that we got in the gene pool of the Servants of the Living God - the same that you found in our spiritual forefathers - check this out:



1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)



There it is Jeremy - we have addicted ourselves to the ministry of the saints!



We have a favored lot, and we have a good life – don’t worry about us! You should read Psalm 91 and then you might have a clue! You see Jeremy – the promises of God are as good as gold!



Thanks for writing.



Shirley L Phelps-Roper

5/17/07


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My response to the response:

You simply ignored my question, which is ignoring the bible and the god you worship. "Thou shall not judge", how do you respond to your endless judging? Nowhere in the bible does it say being homesexual is wrong, just sodomy/anal sex and sex between two sexes. But nowhere does it say homesexuality is wrong. So why does your club waste their time judging people when this is a great sin? Is it out of ignorance to take advantage of forgivness? -Jeremy

[TheCount]

IT says basically any sexual contact with a man (lying with a man like you would with a woman) pretty much is wrong. It doesn't say it is wrong for you to love men.

[Davey Bones]

Here are the usual suspects of Bible quotes:

-Genesis 1:27-28 states:“ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

-Genesis 2:23-24:And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

-Genesis 19:4-8:“ Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof."

- Jude 1:7:“ In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion.

-Leviticus 18:22 says:“ And with a man you shall not lie with as a man lies with a woman; it is an abomination. ”

-Leviticus 20:13 states:“ If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

- Epistle to the Romans 1:26-27, Paul writes:“ Because of this [idolatry], God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (KJV), Paul says: “ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


I'm not interpreting them, they're just the most commonly cited suspects. Have fun.

[Davey Bones]

Originally Posted by TheCount

IT says basically any sexual contact with a man (lying with a man like you would with a woman) pretty much is wrong. It doesn't say it is wrong for you to love men.

Could we please dispose of that argument now? I'd appreciate not being neutered, thanks. That's as miserable a concept as "love the sinner, hate the sin". I'm queer, and that entails an attraction to men.

[Yossarian]

If God does not approve of gay people then why did he create so many?

lying with a man like you would with a woman

That could mean just lying down, not neccerarily sex. Im no expert but Im pretty sure gay men have sex quite differently than a man and woman would, since men dont have vaginas.

Its all a load of nonsense imo, the only thing those quotes from the bible prove is that there were homophobes two thousand years ago. The homophobes of today are using it to justify thier own fears and bigotry, come on its only gay guys, hardly scary.

[jroe52]

so is it cool if they 69? lol.

""Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.""

that just doesn't make sense.... since why would they allow adultery, sex without marriage and this... just seems hypocritical. i know its a story in the bible, but it would not justify lust/adultery just because its written in one small paragraph when many others say don't do this crap to any sex...


i just get frustrated with people who are closed minded since they judge others and take other quotes to use against people when they don't even solve their own problems in their own lives. theres a famous quote, in the bible, even as a buddhist i like... that is to take the thorn (speck) out of your own eye before you remove a stick from someone elses. so judge yourself before others...

[Tothiel]

jroe52

These people are quite frankly, nut jobs, they are obsessive and rank with dangerous ideology. To be honest, I think they should all be arrested, maybe a shower or two with a lonely 300 pound life term felon will loosen them up.

They aren't worth the flesh they inhabit. I really hope they find themselves in the face of someone who has had enough. They are nothing more than hatefull cowards pretending to have a purpose in a life that has no use for them. Those people will never be anything more in life than a symbol of hate and ignorance, I can only hope it comes back to bite them.

(No matter what you write them they will side step, and counter with unrelated rubish. I wrote them a few times and was asked to not write back, I concluded sometimes you can't speak sense into the senseless......)

[Edit] Here is some of their videos: ( I wsa bored so....)

Va tech

Oh yes, they are great.....

Get them why they are young...Right?

Lol... Wonder if they see the contradictions in comparison to their own methods

Lol.... They have a theme song...

[pj_goober]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

Its all a load of nonsense imo, the only thing those quotes from the bible prove is that there were homophobes two thousand years ago. The homophobes of today are using it to justify thier own fears and bigotry, come on its only gay guys, hardly scary.

Just as a point of interest - the bible wasn't written 2000 years ago..
not by a long shot.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by Yossarian

If God does not approve of gay people then why did he create so many?

lying with a man like you would with a woman

That could mean just lying down, not neccerarily sex. Im no expert but Im pretty sure gay men have sex quite differently than a man and woman would, since men dont have vaginas.

Its all a load of nonsense imo, the only thing those quotes from the bible prove is that there were homophobes two thousand years ago. The homophobes of today are using it to justify thier own fears and bigotry, come on its only gay guys, hardly scary.

In the historical context lying with a man as you would a woman means any form of sexual contact aka. (since you evidently need it spelt out) fisting, fondling, handling, tossing, and penetrating in any sense of the word. I'm sure if you use your imagination the majority of these are possible for both genders.

What the quotes in fact prove (presuming we are still on Leviticus 18) is in fact that God is tolerant, not homophobic. He encourages love between men and woman alike, however denies what IS NOT NECESSARILY NATURAL. Men are obviously designed to mate with woman, the bible encourages this.

[pj_goober]

Originally Posted by TheCount

God is tolerant

You're going to struggle to defend that one!

[Yossarian]

In the historical context lying with a man as you would a woman means any form of sexual contact aka. (since you evidently need it spelt out) fisting, fondling, handling, tossing, and penetrating in any sense of the word

Thats not what it says, thats what people interpret it as. My point is it could be interpeted differently.