Escaping Kami Shiho Gatame/North South position

[Slindsay]

Like you didn't know already but:
Kami Shiho Gatame

Kuzure Kami Shiho Gatame


Recently I've been having a lot of trouble escaping from this position in Randoori. I've tried working out why it is so difficult for me to do this and have a few idea's though.

I don't fall into kami shiho, my opponents are all deliberatley transitioning to it from either kesa gatame or yoko shiho gatame if they pass my guard/land in dominant position after a throw. The fact they are transitioning means they already have one grip on my belt or on my gi below the belt. This means they can easily get the underhook shown in modified hold down.

The escapes I try are:

1) Bridge and turn onto my side: Not really an escape, I'm just trying to get some form of posture or turn onto my front to avoid the pin this doesn't work as the low grips on my gi/belt let them stig to me like glue

2) Wall escape: Where you try to push off them like they are a wall then spin to return them to your guard, again no dice as the escapes more of a gi one and isn't going to work when they have a belt grip on me

3) Open arms escape: Used to create space, you try to open your arms wide and drive them up into them, better used as they rush in to get the grip to create space, also when they have the second version shown the postioning on their arms negates the movement

4) Leg swing to side: raise the legs straight up and swing them from side to side to try and get momentum enough to spin out from underneath and up to all fours, again they have a grip set in to deeply to let this one work

Now I know the key to escapes is combingin them but at the moemtn I don't seem to be able to create space enough or change their posture enough with any of these escapes to actually make a difference, maybe their are some combo's I should be trying of the above escapes that I'm not aware of?

I'm begining to suspect that kami shiho isn't actually escapable if the opponent has a good grip on your belt and isn't going to do anything but pin you for 25 secondswhich means it's absoloutley crucial that I stop him as he tries to circle to get the pin.

[slipthejab]

My experience with the north/south is that once your opponents sunk it in... it's damn near impossible to get out of. If you do manage it... it's a complete grind and seems to be down to a slip up in your opponents technique rather than any brilliant escape (lol - at least in my experience).

The worst thing about it is... if your opponent has a shorter torso than you (common when you're 6'2" like me) you end up with his belt/knot in your face... or worse... his ball-box. Often times if you end up here... inevitabley your opponent will begin to shift his hips on purpose... which leaves you with a raw or bruised face. If you opponents are 86kg and up... this is a real drag... as they're essentially using the coarse texture of the gi to grind off your face.

My best defense is to do everything humanly possible to avoid this position.

Admittedly this doesn't always work... and luckily this is a more common technique for gi grappling than for non gi. Not having a belt on avoids alot of the control they could have in the top position of North/South.

edit: I just realized this in the Judo section not the BJJ section.
Anywho... we did have a Judoka or two try the above mentioned hip shifting in competition against some of our BJJ players... luckily they didn't have it quite sussed and our guys ended up using the mistakes to their advantage.

Now if I only could counter the throws better.

[Oversoul]

Kami shiho gatame is very hard to escape.

Kazure kami shiho gatame, on the other hand, I can usually get out of because it really leaves me with a free arm. I just reach with that free arm and get a good grip on the back of my opponent's gi, then wedge my other arm under his knee, push myself away and bridge to my stomach unless he follows me, in which case I roll him over.

My usual tactic against kami shiho gatame is to work an arm underneath the opponent's body. This doesn't usually get me off my back, but it gets him to transition into a different pin, and I can try to reverse the situation before the new pin is locked on.