The Sharia police... man is this dumb

[slipthejab]

I'm usually one for letting people just get on with their lives whether it be Muslim or Christian or... even those whiney atheists....

As of late there's been no end to the amount of negative media coverage that Islam has gotten in the mass media. Much of that I take issue with as most of the vocal proponents of it don't know jack about Islam but are the first start spouting off about what's wrong with it.

That being said... I came across the article posted below.
Now everyone know's that Aceh has a long bloody history and it's a story that doesn't often make the front page because of the brutal tactics of the Indonesian government - which as in turn led to both the Acehnese rebels and the Indonesian military forces racking up obscene amounts of bloodshed and human rights violations. Most people only heard of the plight of the Acehnese during the tsunami that wiped thousands out and left the rest without food or shelter. Even then the Indonesian military kept a very, very tight grip on who from the outside world got in to help the Acehnese out.

Anyhow - I digress... note the part of the article that I've bolded.
Is this not the absolutely dumbest thing you've read in some time?!?!
Surely their resources can be better spent than having these busybodies running around checking up on everyone.

I dunno this just struck me as ULTRA *bleepin* STUPID!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6220256.stm

Aceh wary over new Sharia police
By Lucy Williamson
BBC News, Aceh

An hour before dusk and the newest law enforcers in the Indonesian province of Aceh - its Sharia police - are getting ready for the evening patrol.

They line up on the back of the pick-up truck, women on one side, men on the other, wearing uniform baseball caps and clutching walkie-talkies.

Aceh is the only Indonesian province allowed to apply Sharia, or Islamic, law.

But with the province preparing for its first election since last year's peace deal ended years of separatist violence, the Sharia police's role has become increasingly controversial.

As the truck moves through the early evening traffic, Yustina explains the rules.

"We just patrol around," she said. "We look for anyone not wearing proper Islamic dress, or any couples who are hanging out together without being married. We usually head down towards the beach - there's where lots of people hang out."

High percentage of Muslims, and only province where Sharia law allowed
Separatist rebels fought decades-long campaign against Jakarta
December 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami devastated region
New peace talks led to August 2005 agreement
December 2006 elections for governor and district leaders

It does not take long to find their first target - a couple sitting in a parked car, at the side of the road.

One by one, the team surrounds them. A discussion develops and after a few minutes the couple drive off.

"We reminded them that in Aceh you have Sharia Law now and you're not allowed to do this," the leader of the patrol said, "even though they were actually husband and wife. This is a public place and it stirs up socially jealousy - people don't know they're husband and wife, so they're not allowed to do it."

In fact the Sharia police should not be targeting married couples at all. Their brief is quite specific - to check for alcohol and gambling, for anyone not conforming to the Islamic dress codes and for signs of sexual contact between unmarried couples.

After finding these crimes, they are meant to simply hand the evidence over to the police.

Bad reputation

But they have been getting a rather zealous reputation recently.

At his office in Aceh's Islamic Institute, Yusni Sabri has been giving a lot of thought to the development of Sharia Law.

Woman having her clothes checked in Aceh
Rules on dress are being strictly enforced

He supports it; enough to give a sermon before the province's first public caning.

But he says the Sharia police are getting a bad reputation among ordinary people.

"The way these Sharia police are acting when something happens is not appreciated," he said, "because they're young, they have no experience, they're newly installed. So what they need is more experience, and more training."

He believes that, while Islam is strongly rooted in Aceh, many people support the growth of Sharia law as proof of the province's autonomy.

Aceh holds elections on Monday to choose a new governor and local district heads.

The elections are the result of a peace deal, signed last year, under which separatist rebels gave up their struggle for independence in return for unprecedented autonomy within Indonesia.

Yusni Sabri also believes that three decades of conflict in Aceh left people hungry for any law and order that works.

"For some time we lost everything," he says, "Aceh had no law, there was complete lawlessness. If you were tortured or jailed, who would you report to? Nobody. So when there is no law, people feel any law must be good."

But the problem with adding a new layer of law enforcement is what it does to the existing one.

Back on patrol, Yustina voices her unease. "The police think they're so great" she said, "they look down on us; they think they can ignore us."

Across town, chief police investigator Suedi Husen said that despite the tensions, his officers broadly welcome the support from the Sharia police - especially as the peace agreement has restricted the number of regular police allowed to operate in Aceh.

But he said there was a need for more training to ensure the Sharia patrols keep within the remit of their authority.

"There are several people in that organisation who over-react to the problems they find. But the dividing line is clear, it's been kept that way - the Sharia police cannot act on violations."

But plans for the Sharia police are focused less on ensuring they work within their authority than on expanding it. The province is currently rolling out a programme giving them new powers of investigation.

Meanwhile, Aceh's politicians, locked in an election race, are steadfastly looking the other way.

The province's newest law enforcers may be good at watching over the public's behaviour, but with Islamic law standing for so much here now, who is going to be watching over them?

[karate princess]

Personally I disagree with it, but what can you do? There's no liberalism at all, I mean, does not allowing someone to speak to the opposite member of sex without being married to them breech human rights?

[holyheadjch]

Its a different culture, you can either like it or lump it, personally I'll lump it and never move there. Simple.

[adouglasmhor]

It's a fundamental tennet of Islamic faith to apply Sharia Law to Muslim lands. The ones who don't are backsliders in the opinion of the ones that do. And yes it is a waste of resources and they are busybodies.

[Thelistmaker]

The particular laws they apply are one particular set of Islamic laws based on one particular interpretation of the Qur’an.
There are other forms of Sharia law. There was a woman scholar in Morocco I believe who came up with a theoretical sharia system just as legitimate as the ones applied in other countries but putting much more emphasis on human rights and especially women’s rights.

[slipthejab]

Listy,
Interesting - I just recently discovered that the Shi'ites theoretically allow individual interpretation of the Qur’an - something the Sunni's strictly forbid. Though I'm still not exactly clear how much of this distinction is rather academic and/or theoretical.

[SonOfGrimmy]

I've seen them in action. Walking around hitting people with a stick to usher them into mosques to prey.

Canada wanted to allow certain groups to use the Sharia law, I'm glad they didn't.

[adouglasmhor]

Originally Posted by Thelistmaker

The particular laws they apply are one particular set of Islamic laws based on one particular interpretation of the Qur’an.
There are other forms of Sharia law. There was a woman scholar in Morocco I believe who came up with a theoretical sharia system just as legitimate as the ones applied in other countries but putting much more emphasis on human rights and especially women’s rights.

And I have bolded the bit that explains why it is only theoretical.

[baqi9]

Hadith - Sahih al-Bukhari 3.624, Narrated Anas, r.a.
Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one." People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."

Hadith - Muslim, Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah
When Allah's Messenger delivered the sermon, his eyes became red, his voice rose, and his anger increased so that he was like one giving a warning against the enemy and saying: "The enemy has made a morning attack on you and in the evening too." He would also say: "The last Hour and I have been sent like these two," and he would join his forefinger and middle finger. He would continue: "The best speech is that embodied in the Book of Allah, and the best guidance is the guidance given by Muhammad. The most evil affairs are their innovations; and every innovation is an error." He would add: "I am dearer to a Muslim than even his self. He who has left behind property, that is for his family, and he who dies in debt or leaves children (in helplessness), the responsibility (of paying his debt and bringing up his children) lies on me."

Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Ali ibn Abu Talib
The Prophet said, If anyone introduces an innovation in the religion, he will be responsible for it. (Good or bad). If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in the religion) he is cursed by Allaah, by His angels and by all the people.

Hadith - Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 49, Number 861. Narrated Aisha, r.a.
Allah's Apostle SAAWS said, "If somebody innovates something which is not in harmony with the principles of our religion, that thing is rejected."

So no one is allowed to oppress another in islam. And innovations are not allowed in the religion. By innovations it does not mean having modern things. It means adding to the religion or taking away from the religion.
I like the idea, and just like every other law enforcement, it takes time for the masses to get use to the laws. like it or not this is a requirement in islam. I'm glad that they are turn to Allah and His religion instead of turning to the west for guidance.

[slipthejab]

err... did you read the article at all?

I appears not.

Go back and read the article. They're being ridiculous busy bodies.

[FortuneFaded]

I think it is scary that there is support for Sharia law in the UK.

[baqi9]

Originally Posted by slipthejab

err... did you read the article at all?

I appears not.

Go back and read the article. They're being ridiculous busy bodies.

yes i did read the entire article. what is ridiculous busy boding are they doing? From what i read in the article, they are enforcing the fact that men and women who can marry one another not to be alone with one another. they are enforcing the fact that women aren't allowed to go outside not dressed properly.
Clearly there would be no need for these police if the people would adhere to the religion, but they don't. remember this is an muslim society, not a western one. muslims are supposed to live under islamic law. islamic law looks at what is best for the society over the individual generally. ex. one man may drink and nothing bad happens to him, another man drinks and does all kinds of bad things. Allah says there is benefit in alcohol, but the sin is worse. the same goes for what is happening here in the states and over there. women go outside showing body parts only allowed for close relatives or even their husband. this is bad for society, because it condones lusty dress and opens doors to other things. Allah also says that if a man and a woman are alone, the third among them is shayaatan.
I never seen a man alone with woman he thought was attractive and not want to get with her. that is unless he gay. so what is happening over there that hasn't been complained about over here?

[baqi9]

what's scary about it?

[Fishbone.]

ROFL that is the worst type of patrol ever. I wouldn't even call them police.

[slipthejab]

Originally Posted by baqi9

yes i did read the entire article. what is ridiculous busy boding are they doing?

It appears you must not have read the article very clearly.
Even though the absurd part was bolded.

It does not take long to find their first target - a couple sitting in a parked car, at the side of the road.

One by one, the team surrounds them. A discussion develops and after a few minutes the couple drive off.

"We reminded them that in Aceh you have Sharia Law now and you're not allowed to do this," the leader of the patrol said, "even though they were actually husband and wife. This is a public place and it stirs up socially jealousy - people don't know they're husband and wife, so they're not allowed to do it."

So... let's see... the moral police showed up and told a man and his wife that they were not allowed to be parked talking in their car. Even though it's admittedly not illegal. Hmmm... seems absurd to me.

Because other parts of a repressed population get filthy ideas a man and a woman who are legally married are not allowed to be sitting and talking in their parked car?!

Give me a break.
It's the worst sort of busybody absurdity.

From what i read in the article, they are enforcing the fact that men and women who can marry one another not to be alone with one another. they are enforcing the fact that women aren't allowed to go outside not dressed properly.

Again - go back and read the example that in the article. It was a legally married couple. Talking in their parked car. What a bunch of bufoons these supposed moral police are. Which is clearly not illegal under Islamic Sharia law... if it is... would you please mind qouting the section where it's illegal for a married man and wife to talk in their parked car?

Clearly there would be no need for these police if the people would adhere to the religion, but they don't.

Which says something about the people... perhaps it's being forced on them. If it's such a problem... then perhaps the real problem is the moral expectations that Sharia law makes of them.

remember this is an muslim society, not a western one. muslims are supposed to live under islamic law. islamic law looks at what is best for the society over the individual generally. ex. one man may drink and nothing bad happens to him, another man drinks and does all kinds of bad things. Allah says there is benefit in alcohol, but the sin is worse.

Hmm... I still don't find that this in any way relates to a married man and woman talking in their parked car.

the same goes for what is happening here in the states and over there. women go outside showing body parts only allowed for close relatives or even their husband. this is bad for society, because it condones lusty dress and opens doors to other things.

Rubbish.
Pure and utter pap.
When you can provide credible citations, data or other evidence that supports this then we'll take you seriously. Until this... puhleeeeeze.

I never seen a man alone with woman he thought was attractive and not want to get with her. that is unless he gay. so what is happening over there that hasn't been complained about over here?

Then I'd submit that you have a very narrow life experience. Or you're very morally insecure yourself. I happen to work with many women on a daily basis... models no less... that wear sometimes pretty much next to nothing... do I run around hopping all over them? Nope. Do other photographers? Not really. An individual can make up his own mind about what he does with himself. He's not somehow so much on the level of an animal that he's got no control over himself when he's around another woman.

I find that many of the Muslim men I've dealt with from South Asia and the Middle East have a real problem being around women. They've never been around them socially so they tend to think of them as one of two things... mothers or sluts. They're preconditioned to only know those two possibilities. They have very little social contact with women outside of their immediate family... and when they do get married - which is often arranged... they still have little to no contact with women other than their family or their wife.

Is it any wonder that certain Muslim cultures condone rape as a means of revenge?

Are you aware of how the crime of rape is treated in many Muslim cultures? One only has to look at Pakistan and India to see that women are on the lowest rung on the ladder.

Is it any wonder that certain Muslim cultures essentially condone honor killings of women?

Is it any wonder that they are socially retarded around women?

Hardly.

If they were raised in an environment that was open and one learned respect for others and for the self and a bit of self discipline they wouldn't be leaning on abusdities like these buffoon moral police to control non-situations like married couples talking in their parked car.

Sorry but your whole 'Islam saving people from themselves' argument is total and uttter rubbish.