Basic empty hand for weapon trainers?

[CrimsonDemon]

I like to point out that I picked up a weapon before I started kicking things. I know how to use all the ways of the weapon, even hilt punches with swords and slides with an axe. Basically any weapon you can put in my hand I'll be good with.

When watching someone else though, I noticed all their forms with a weapon and how it glided from one swing directly into another(he needed to move his feet more though to get better stances). But here's where it gets interesting. I noticed he got into a fight with these two bulks at the arcade and he used some very effective empty hand abilities while I could only sit back and kick off one guy that was following.

I talked with him later and he said he picked up a handful of TKD classes just to make "it complete". I've been thinking about taking up an empty hand form(something along the lines of kickboxing) more and more lately and was wondering if it would actually help my weapons practice?

Opinions? Suggestions?

Also I have a post in Questions that I'd like people to take a look at directly relating to this question.


EDIT: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ad.php?t=42109 That's the link to my Questions post. I didn't get a lot of results but it also directly relates to my weapons work in a sense. And I'm really at a roadblock on what to choose that might be the best for me.

[Stolenbjorn]

Fiore di Liberi bases his entire weapon-manual (made around 1410) on wresteling and open-hand techniques. It resembles panatuka and cadena (I attended one week-end-seminar, so that I could compare) Fiore is consiquent in never letting the (left)-hand miss an oppertunity to exploit openings in the opponents guard, to turn the opponent with an elbow-push, to elbow him, to punch his face/helmet with an open hand, to make the opponent fall; for instance by pressing the head backwards with an open left hand, to lock/break arms, to disarm, and to enter in wresteling with the weapon (half swording; allso called "giokko stretto" -close-play).

[TheCount]

Traditionally knights trained in a form of wrestling and close combat, then in sword and then in the use of a horse. The viking wrestling was called Grima and was popular. The knights wrestling was called something like Acania.... i cant remember the full name, its latin I think.

For a weapons person I would recommend Jiu Jitsu for the reason that if you are good with a weapon, you could disarm someone and take a weapon to get into your element.

[xen]

what weapons training have you had..?

i would reccomend getting empty hand training...if you are as good with a weapon as you say you are (and i have no reason to doubt you) then you should find that you get the hang of empty hand stuff in no time at all...

you could also try practicing your weapons stuff, but without the weapons in your hands...get creative and think laterally and see if you can find any simlarities in the basic movements...have fun

[Lord Spooky]

I'll follow on from that:

What weapons training have you had?
How do you know you are any good? How have you tested yourself?

[Stolenbjorn]

Originally Posted by spookyFBI

I'll follow on from that:

What weapons training have you had?
How do you know you are any good? How have you tested yourself?

Don't feed his ego
Personally, I'm 7 good on a scale from 1 to pudding. High self asteem is (usually) a good thing, so despite risking to be regarded as somewhat kockey, I think Mr. Crimson Demon should continue having high thoughts about himself

[CrimsonDemon]

*does crazy movie-fu stoof*

Really, in all seriousness I do think I could be better. What I really advance in is the long spear(Europian style), claymore, and dual tonfas. But have picked up a range of weapons like the rapier, flamberge, nunchaku, gladius, tai-chi, chinese broadsword.

I think I'm relatively good seeing as I practiced with my sword to the point I can wield my claymore in one hand and can move it with relative ease. But that doesn't say I have any sense of accomplishment yet, so you get the idea. After I felt like I got comfortable holding a weapon, I worked on my legs with kicks to fill in the gaps my weapons left behind, also another reason why I posted what I did in Questions.

I've always been interested in weapons at a young age and when I was about 13, finally got my hands on a wooden replica 1h and practiced religiously. So now I look at every weapon I can and even think of it's uses. Even discovered the advance uses of some weapons without anyone even showing me(given in some ways more painful than others).

On a scale of 1 to 10, I think I'm about a six or so. Not really accomplished but not all that unfamiliar with what I'm doing. But this is without any formal training, just my practice field and a handful of targets.

you could also try practicing your weapons stuff, but without the weapons in your hands...get creative and think laterally and see if you can find any simlarities in the basic movements

Thanks, xenmaster. I'll try that this afternoon. And look into Fiore di Liberi. It gives me something to research also.

Hope this answers a lot of questions, I'm really looking forwards to making more of an advancement. And thanks to all the responses so far, it's really got me to thinking.

[Lord Spooky]

so I take it you've got no formal training what so ever! If that's the case then how do you know you're doing it correctly!

[CrimsonDemon]

No formal training at all, newp. But I have heard about trial and error. I try something, see how it can be better, and make adjustments as accordingly. I have my stances and placement down perfectly. Even remember how I kept my back foot too far to the outside and practiced until I got it right and it felt comfortable.

Like I also said, it's only more reason why I'm thinking about empty hand training. I want to make a choice of empty hand training that will help my weapons as well as other abilities.

I'm a self-trained weapon slinger. I do fairly well given my inability. Which my inability is that my arms are weak to the point I depend on a weapon(if you can see me, you'll agree also), but I'm fairly stocked from the hips and below with excellent power in running and lifting, which is where I want to concentrate.

I'm more interested in an advancement elsewhere seeing as my hands are nearly all the time full. I haven't made much progress on my own in a while so I'm interested in looking for a local gym that serves kickboxing. Though I have a few questions first.

Bending forwards to grasp my feet in a "toetouch" is easy for me, but since I can grab my feet easilly in the effort I guess you can't call it a toe touch. My problem is I've had lengthy practice trying to do higher static and dynamic side movements with my legs(sidekicks and splits) on my own with very little progress.

Anyone have any suggestions to leading me to any aid? I really would like to kick higher in side and front, along with having better back flexibility. A suggestion to an MA or gymnastics direction would help.

Thanks in advance.

That was my post in Questions, chopped down a little bit. Also another reason why I'm looking for empty hand training. I'm not going to be carrying a weapon all the time, am I?

[Lord Spooky]

Originally Posted by CrimsonDemon

No formal training at all, newp. But I have heard about trial and error. I try something, see how it can be better, and make adjustments as accordingly. I have my stances and placement down perfectly. Even remember how I kept my back foot too far to the outside and practiced until I got it right and it felt comfortable.

Like I also said, it's only more reason why I'm thinking about empty hand training. I want to make a choice of empty hand training that will help my weapons as well as other abilities.

Again I ask how do you know you are doing it right if you have no training? How are you measuring yourself? If you're not training in a formal art that has proven itself over the years of it's development then how do you know that you aren't just dancing around waving a bit of wood/metal around in the back yard?

Or am I to believe you have developed your system through trial and error of actual combat??

[Anth]

Originally Posted by spookyFBI

Or am I to believe you have developed your system through trial and error of actual combat??

If he has, then he must be good - he is still alive

[CrimsonDemon]

Originally Posted by Anth

If he has, then he must be good - he is still alive

Says it for me. I editted my previous post, take a look please.

[Lord Spooky]

Originally Posted by Anth

If he has, then he must be good - he is still alive

Originally Posted by CrimsonDemon

Says it for me. .

So if I take this post into account along with your others and what Anth said am I correct in thinking you are saying you've tested your ability via real combat??

[CrimsonDemon]

Well, it hasn't been easy, but yes. So, I'm gonna look for an empty hand to hopefully help advance my weapons training, and fill in where I can't carry a weapon. I've been in fights without a weapon, my punches are worth crud, but once I have motivation to get my foot up, it's a guaranteed knock down, which is all I really need.

I been in fights with and without weapons, I remember them quite well, even my mistakes as simple as a finger out of place. But I still feel like there could be more, you know?

[Stolenbjorn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonDemon

Well, it hasn't been easy, but yes.

If you train because you are in a dangerous area and need to fight to survive (like living in a combat zone, or in a drug-user-hostel, or somthing like that), I understand why.

If you actively seek fights in order to evaluate your progress, I think you have an attitude-problem, and I then regret having told you about Fiore.

If you're only pulling our legs, then I guess things are all right.

People that train in order to kick ass in real fights that they actively seek out, will eventually end up in a situation where they bite over more than they can chew and get killed\maimed for life, or they might end up delivering such lethal results to others. In my country people that live like this gets locked up in jail/mental institutions.

If you train to be a good streetfighter, you should gather a little group of people with common interrest and experience with protection-gear and soft weapons (like LARP-latex-weapons, etc) and go full contact with them.

If you fight to be good at a sport, you learn the sport's rules, and train to be as good as possible within that given sports restrictions.

If you fight to learn an old system -not nessecarily in order to become a good streetfigher, but to learn the system and the techniques, you spar focusing every ounce of brain-cell on them, not how good you become.

I belong to the last category.