Kung Fu: What's Your View On It?

[Shen Yin]

Many years ago, I had seen an old tape. It was a promo-documentary for Kyokushinkai-Kan Karate, Fighting Black Kings. Now during this, they were following mostly the 70's American practitioners, Willy Williams and William Oliver (both great fighters of their day and God bless his soul, Shuseki Shihan Oliver).

At the same time, they were showing off Kyokushin shools worldwide; Singapore, Japan, etc. Muay Thai fighters were invited, and then......*sigh* they had these "Kung Fu" fighters from Hong Kong. Excuse me, *ahem* SUPPOSED Kung Fu fighters...

Anyhow, these guys were just flat-out slobs, seriously. I dunno WHAT the hell they were trying to do on that rooftop, but it wasn't any form of Wu Kung (true name) that I'm familiar with. Essentially, these guys were getting owned so badly that people within the audience were laughing at how weak they were.

It didn't take long for it to sink in that this was a set up on their part and that these guys really weren't any form of Kung Fu fighters (whatever the hell that means) to begin with.

Now, I'm fully aware of the long racial rivalries between the Chinese and the Japanese (hopefully, we won't get into this); the martial arts are just another form of that rivalry. However, it makes me wonder:

Do you guys really view us that way?

Now let me be frank with you. I've fought MANY Karate-Ka, my father was one of the east coast pioneers during the 70's. However, my practicing Wu Kung has had me become pointed at for several reasons. Mainly, supposedly not being able to fight, or be tough in full contact combat or reality combat.

Well, for one, in between Shotokan, Kyokushin, Wado Ryu and Shorin Ryu and one from a supposed Koga Ryu (I know, I know, it's Ninjutsu, not Karate), I can say that I've destroyed that stereotype quickly. My original school, being of Southern Fist, is extremely rough in training and our first and always primary objective for combat was based around quickly (and in my Sifu's case, aggressively) defeating the opponent.

Is the rivalry THAT bad between us? I have a friend residing in Harlem who helps run his father's Goju Ryu school (Grand Master Hymen) and we agree on many things and have practiced together a couple of times.

Personal pride issues aside; what gives?

[Alexander]

In Britain no one seems to think Kung Fu is rubbish. In fact a few people at my Shotokan club have done Wing Chun and don't hesitate to recommend it to others. My brother does Dragon style Kung Fu - unfortunately I haven't had the chance to train with his club yet - and theirs is full on, full contact training. I have a great respect for Kung Fu, like all arts, when the training is done properly - which yours evidently is.

As far as I am aware, over here there is no real rivalry - except rivalry between different fighters as you said.

[holyheadjch]

I'm a fan of Kung Fu, theres a Hung Kuen club at my university and theres never been any real rivalry (partly because their master is a scary old Chinese bloke with a big sword)

[Evil Betty]

Kung Fu is awesome.

[New Guy]

I think Kung Fu is just another solution to the same problem... there are many different kinds of Kung Fu anyway right? And some of them are very very different depend on your sifu/club/whatever.

Is Tai Chi considered as Kung Fu???

[Evil Betty]

Originally Posted by New Guy

I think Kung Fu is just another solution to the same problem... there are many different kinds of Kung Fu anyway right? And some of them are very very different depend on your sifu/club/whatever.

Is Tai Chi considered as Kung Fu???

I believe so. It's one of the three "internal" styles from China.

[GojuKJoe]

I think kung fu is very similar to karate in the sense that it is a style that (or should) includes all ranges, and all techniques (meaning grappling, locks, throws etc. as well as striking from all ranges and positions). So I rate kung fu, in theory, very highly.

[TheCount]

Kung Fu is a great art in my opinion and I'd love to learn it. The thing to remember is Kyukoshin Karate is brutal barefist fighitng karate and is typically taught as such. Not many other arts can compare to the level of conditioning and damage dealing that Kyukoshin Karateka portray.

[Tank Gurl]

I believe that anyone who can make a fist can deal damage, training or not.

[TheBeast]

Kung Fu focuses more on the mental aspects of not only combat but life. In my Kung Fu school we read books constantly and study the Buddhist 4 Noble Truths. In my style of Kung Fu we believe the body obviously has its physical limitations but as far as we know the human mind does not. Therefore if you can coordinate the mind with the body to form "mental extensions" then you will need no physcal strength to defeat your opponent. And when you master this you can defeat anyone except your inner self. It's pretty confusing stuff but I've seen my instructor take on a Karate instructor downtown and he whoops him up everytime. Of course I'm NOT at all saying that Kung Fu is better than Karate. I'm sure there are many many karate masters that could level my instructor with their eyes closed but I do admit my instructor is little, thin, and as hard and fast as he hits, you have to believe all of this mind body stuff is true.

[New Guy]

Beast, for that level of art(your sifu), I would believe it is the comparison of the person but not the art.

[TheBeast]

Exactly, none of them are better than the other because both teach you to become a better person. What is greater than that?

[Moosey]

Yeah, I don't see any big ideological rivalry between kung fu and karate. To be honest, such rivalries tend to happen at a club level. For example, the main rival club where I live is tae kwon do, so when we all get a bit drunk after training we cuss tae kwon do. It doesn't mean anything, and their instructor is a good friend of mine, but they're automatically "the baddies" just by virtue of being our rivals in recruiting.

The same thing happens on this message board, when the non-kata people start on the kata people or the TMAs vs the MMAs. Even if we all get on fine on a personal level and have respect for each other as martial artists, we still argue and put down our rivals for being the "outgroup". There's a lot of work in social psychology about how we define our group membership and how this affects our behaviour. For example, if a kung fu person was telling me how rubbish karate was, I'd feel obliged to defend karate and put down kung fu, but if a non-martial-artist was telling me how rubbish martial arts such as kung fu and karate are, I'd feel obliged to defend kung fu and say how great it is. It's just human nature.

[New Guy]

Well not all rivalries are bad... I competes with my friends in our programming class and see who can wrote the best script... competition agrument debating makes people use their brain and think, and as long as rivals are respecting each other and keep positive sprit, it isn't so bad.

[Moosey]

Originally Posted by New Guy

Well not all rivalries are bad... I competes with my friends in our programming class and see who can wrote the best script... competition agrument debating makes people use their brain and think, and as long as rivals are respecting each other and keep positive sprit, it isn't so bad.

Yeah, I think on the whole that's the kind of rivalries we have in the MAs