Buddhist/idols...not really

[hunnysan]

I was born and raised Buddhist..

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

I don't...i follow a path that buddha found to reach enlightment..(corny as that sounds) but on top of that...i've seen plently of christians/catholics pray to a figure of jesus or the virgin mary....isn't that idol worship..did god not say not to worship idols??? Am i wrong?? Do a majority of buddhist pray to idols...but at the same time don't christians/catholics do the same?

-dj hunny

[Strafio]

I've never heard that one before.
I've heard odd weird criticisms like Karma culture (where people treat Karma like an infectious disease - don't help someone in an accident, you might catch their bad karma), but not been accused of worshipping an idol.

I think some places do have a tradition where the idols seem to be worshipped (although I think that they're supposed to just be a means to focus on to aid meditation).

[Kwajman]

Wow, this threads going to get hot quick.

[Capt Ann]

I think it's possible to discuss it maturely and fairly. No need to get heated at all.

Yes, some who call themselves Christians use statues as an aid in prayer and meditation. But it is not part of Christianity. Idol worship and praying to statues is expressly forbidden by Judaism, and therefore by Christianity (Christianity is a movement within Judaism--it is the belief that Jesus Christ [Y'eshua Ha Mashiach in Hebrew] is the promised Messiah to the world).

There are parts of the world where Christianity has reached, but only at a surface level. In many of those areas, Christrian teachings are laid over top of old native and pagan beliefs. I spent some time in short term missions near Oaxaca in southern Mexico. This is (on the surface) a very Catholic area. But we were there close to the "Days of the Dead", and all the locals were out putting food and flowers on tombstones, so dead relatives would be appeased and not haunt them the rest of the year.

Many areas that practice Buddhism are the same. If you visit Buddhist shrines in Japan, most will include incense-burning to honor deceased relatives. Buddhism, more than most major religions, adapted to and included many native beliefs wherever it spread. In many parts of the world, Buddhism in practice bears little resemblance to the actual teachings of Siddhartha, who denied the existence of any god.

I can understand the comments of many people you speak with: most Buddhists practice prayer and other things that are not part of the original Buddhist teachings. Still, I hope this serves as an example and a reminder that, when discussing anything of importance (religion, politics, etc), it is important to listen before speaking.

[Kwajman]

I didn't know that christianity was part of judaism.

[Strafio]

The Old Testament is more or less the same as the Jewish equivilant (forgotten what it's called).

They just thought Jesus was a fraud... so they crucified him!

[CKava]

Originally Posted by Capt Ann

In many parts of the world, Buddhism in practice bears little resemblance to the actual teachings of Siddhartha, who denied the existence of any god.

Nice post Capt Ann but this point was slightly wrong. The Buddha never denied the existence of Gods, in fact according to Buddhist scripture he met and held conversations with quite a few of them what he said was that they weren't all that important and that one should not desire to be reborn as one as they too were locked into samsara and hence still subject to the suffering of all impermanent beings.

Personally I think syncreticism in religions isn't that bad for a start it means religions are rarely divisive and secondly the notion of a pure original form of a religion is usually just wishful thinking. I know in the case of early Buddhism that the sangha were involved in a wide variety of practices and the Buddha also did not prohibit lay followers from making offerings to deities and the like.

And dj hunny who cares if some other people think you worship an idol? You can't control how other people judge you so just don't worry about it.

[Trinity]

Originally Posted by hunnysan

I was born and raised Buddhist..

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

I don't...i follow a path that buddha found to reach enlightment..(corny as that sounds) but on top of that...i've seen plently of christians/catholics pray to a figure of jesus or the virgin mary....isn't that idol worship..did god not say not to worship idols??? Am i wrong?? Do a majority of buddhist pray to idols...but at the same time don't christians/catholics do the same?

-dj hunny

Im a christian and i do not worship idols (i am not perfect either) but i agree it specificaly says in the bible not to worship idols so christian who do worship idols should not it doesnt matter if they say they need it as a help for worship or some other excuse, Christians should not need an idol. christians should not change the 10 comandments just because it makes thing easier. Also if the christians who tell you that you worship idols, worship idols as well then they are hipocrites (spellcheck).
Also i cant understand how Chistians/catholics can pray to Mary when is says in the bible there is only ONE mediator between god and man JESUS CHRIST lord and saviour.

[Strafio]

So it seems that people who see Christians, but don't really "get" them think Christians are worshipping idols, and people who see Buddhists, who don't really "get" them think Buddhists are worshipping idols...

They sometimes like to accuse each other of being a set of "rules" too.

[reikislapper]

Capt Ann,

I have to say something here about the pagan belief as the christain belief also took a lot of our rituals and made them their own to try and turn people from following their path. If they didn't then they were called witches and killed even though they would have been called doctor's if it was modern day now. There was quite a few innocent people killed just because they didn't turn to the christain belief and most of them were innocent. A lot of pagans chose to keep quiet about their belief upto modern day as we were under threat of being in trouble if we didn't. We don't worship idols we worship the aspect of god and goddess which is completely different to an idol, I have always seen Jesus as a prophet in his own right but anything else I have problems with.
Christians even wear crosses with the image of Jesus on isn't that keeping him on the cross even though he left it when he was brought down from there. Since when did he return to the cross as I can't remember reading about it in the bible. I feel that churches are doing wrong when they are out to make money out of innocent people keeping him on the cross for so long. I feel that the church is the worst as they worship somone who's no longer on the cross and they are trying to keep him a prisoner imo as he's supposed to be set free it's just a pity the church hasn't realised it yet.
lisa xx

[Stuart H]

People will always criticise Christianity by pointing the finger at Medieval Catholicism, or American televangelists. The fact is that since the establishment of the Church the Gospel has been misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with. But one can see throughout history that there remains Christians who have kept the Gospel mesage and Christ's teachings in their true form. These are the people who brought revivals and reformations - these are the people who restored nations.

One can see when true Christianity is present, people are saved, lives restored, hearts mended, communities united, and nations prospering.

[Ferdie]

Originally Posted by welsh warrior

People will always criticise Christianity by pointing the finger at Medieval Catholicism, or American televangelists. The fact is that since the establishment of the Church the Gospel has been misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with. But one can see throughout history that there remains Christians who have kept the Gospel mesage and Christ's teachings in their true form. These are the people who brought revivals and reformations - these are the people who restored nations.

One can see when true Christianity is present, people are saved, lives restored, hearts mended, communities united, and nations prospering.

This is very true. Gone are the days when the Catholic Church used extreme methods to spread Christianity. Those extreme methods were simply the norm back in medieval times - be it in a religiously dominated nation or not.

The Catholic Church has a following of 1.5 billion. And there are over 2 billion Christians in total in the world mid 2003. It shouldn't be a surprise that the Gospel would be misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with.

Fact of the matter is that Christians have been helping a lot of people - be they Christians or not.

As far as "idol" worship is concerned. Catholics do not worship the saints or the Virgin Mary. They are but models of the Church for people to see - no different from the statues of any nation's leaders in their government halls. Much like the misrepresentation of the Bible, a lot of Catholics are just missing the point.

[Davey Bones]

Originally Posted by hunnysan

I was born and raised Buddhist..

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

-dj hunny

It's ignorance. And I don't mean the "la la la fingers in the ears I'm right you're wrong" ignorance, I mean it's a true misunderstanding of Buddhism (and most Eastern spiritual paths for that matter). Answer people sincerely; if they give you crap, walk away. If they're truly sincere, they might learn a thing or two

[BendzR]

This is a bit of a tangent, but couldn't resist. One thing I find extremely ironic, that I see all the time...

Christians with crosses around their neck.

When the Jews were worshipping the statue of the golden calf, they were still worshipping the same God, but they used the statue as a way to represent God. Many people think the sin they were commiting was praying to some Cow-god, but really they were sinning in that they were bringing God down the a physical model, and reducing him to the same level as the pagan idols of those days.

Now when you take that into account, it is obvious that reducing God/Jesus' representation down the a physical cross-necklace - even if it is just a reminder - is a sin. (Not to mention, the Cross has been a symbol of death and torture for a long time before Jesus) You don't need to worship ur necklace for it to be wrong according to the Bible.

I've had some funny reactions, when I explained this to some Christian friends/people I know with those necklaces.

[Ferdie]

The golden calf was not made to represent God. The Israelites, seeing that Moses has been gone far too long for their liking, made a golden calf as another god or gods. They committed the sin of worshipping a false god and not the God who drew them out of Egypt. Those people weren't looking for a representation of God but a replacement to Moses' God. That was the sin.

So following your line of analogy, it is not a sin to wear a cross around one's neck (I don't wear one though). We must also add that after Christ's death, the cross has become the symbol of salvation, thus the use of the symbol in places of worship.